Is it just me?
#1
Or do poets become either more and more snobby or more and more humble as their skill increases?
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#2
(10-06-2015, 09:07 AM)Weeded Wrote:  Or do poets become either more and more snobby or more and more humble as their skill increases?

Ha, I don't think that applies only to poets. I know someone who says "People don't change, they just become 'more so'."
billy wrote:welcome to the site. make it your own, wear it like a well loved slipper and wear it out. ella pleads:please click forum titles for posting guidelines, important threads. New poet? Try Poetic DevicesandWard's Tips

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#3
Very true, the more I delve into this world of poetry however the more I see these two extremes present themselves. There doesn't seem to be an in-the-middle when it comes to the poets who are revered and well known. I could be wrong, as I'm very new to this still. Just one observation from an outsider looking in is all Tongue
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#4
(10-06-2015, 09:07 AM)Weeded Wrote:  Or do poets become either more and more snobby or more and more humble as their skill increases?

I don't know many poets and so have limited exposure other than from online forums but I can say that the nastiest, snottiest posts i have ever seen always seem to come from those with very little skill and even less patience to discuss it.
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#5
I've found there are plenty of poets in the middle, confident, skilled and published yet still happy to exchange ideas with people with less developed skills.

The ones that are full of themselves disappear from my sphere quick enough, by their choice or mine, same as in all other aspects of life.
billy wrote:welcome to the site. make it your own, wear it like a well loved slipper and wear it out. ella pleads:please click forum titles for posting guidelines, important threads. New poet? Try Poetic DevicesandWard's Tips

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#6
(10-06-2015, 10:37 AM)ellajam Wrote:  I've found there are plenty of poets in the middle, confident, skilled and published yet still happy to exchange ideas with people with less developed skills.

The ones that are full of themselves disappear from my sphere quick enough, by their choice or mine, same as in all other aspects of life.

We have a pretty nice collection right on this forum that is pretty generous with both their time and skill and, while poets tend toward the mischievous especially with word humour, i rarely see much snobbishness from our most skilled members.

We may be just lucky, i have seen some /extreme/ snobbishness among the "skilled elite" on another site i won't mention (<couPFFAgh>)
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#7
(10-06-2015, 10:45 AM)milo Wrote:  
(10-06-2015, 10:37 AM)ellajam Wrote:  I've found there are plenty of poets in the middle, confident, skilled and published yet still happy to exchange ideas with people with less developed skills.

The ones that are full of themselves disappear from my sphere quick enough, by their choice or mine, same as in all other aspects of life.

We have a pretty nice collection right on this forum that is pretty generous with both their time and skill and, while poets tend toward the mischievous especially with word humour, i rarely see much snobbishness from our most skilled members.

We may be just lucky, i have seen some /extreme/ snobbishness among the "skilled elite" on another site i won't mention (<couPFFAgh>)

I don't think it's luck, the tone is set from the top. When respect from both sides of the critique fence is expected the tantrum throwers don't last long. But yes, it's a jaw dropping group.
billy wrote:welcome to the site. make it your own, wear it like a well loved slipper and wear it out. ella pleads:please click forum titles for posting guidelines, important threads. New poet? Try Poetic DevicesandWard's Tips

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#8
Ah yes, this is literally the only poetry forum I've found myself comfortable enough to create an account, interact with fellow poets, and share material. I admit I'm guilty of being an occasional lurker for this website and a couple others for years... Its rather upsetting to me though, I wonder why I only feel comfortable here, when there's many other forums which offer the exact same resource as this one. For instance, I'm a member of several hip-hop forums, and each one is one and the same in the users that interact with each other. Yet poetry... It seems as if things can get volatile pretty quick depending on who you choose to share with... Lol idk maybe it's the large number of newbies vs. the very small number of life-long partakers. Or maybe it's the age difference. Hip-hop fans generally tend to be in the early teens to late 20s, where as you can have a 13 year olds work being critiqued by a 90 year old person in poetry. Or maybe it's just my pessimistic perception. Lol
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#9
Some things in life are just magic and if you're lucky enough you trip into them. Addy sprinkles fairy dust around here and it's billy's job to yell when it gets a little thin and she spreads some more.

Just like we have to take the crap in life, no need to question when something is just right and good, best to just squeeze every juicy bit of it. Big Grin
billy wrote:welcome to the site. make it your own, wear it like a well loved slipper and wear it out. ella pleads:please click forum titles for posting guidelines, important threads. New poet? Try Poetic DevicesandWard's Tips

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#10
I think it's the perception that poets have of their poems and it doesn't seem to be related to talent in any way. Some poets treat their poems as if they are babies that they have created and therefore in their eyes they are perfect so any attempt to say "hey but if your middle child had a slightly smaller nose" gets taken personally as if it were a child. Thankfully those type of poets don't last long on this site because we don't massage their ego. The poets that stay here are the ones that know this is all about developing yourself as a poet and therefore critique is not equated with insult.

When I first joined there was someone's poem that I spent a lot of effort critiquing and the poet replied something like "Listen mate I've lived 20 years to be able to write this poem, I'm not going to change it after all that" My effort was not wasted though because I became slightly better at critiquing and therefore a slightly better poet. It would have been ideal if the person who wrote the poem had benefited also but they were too 'snobby' and so took their shit poem somewhere else where people would love it and give it the admiration that the poet thought it deserved. They never posted here again. Critique drives poets unwilling to learn away and attracts poets who want to be better towards it, it's foolproof. 

Mark
feedback award way aye man
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#11
Ambrosial,

I like your outlook on the rejected critique, I never even thought of it that way. I'm guessing that's where my opinion can be stemmed from, the 'chosen' few who take their poems and share them in their little nooks of the world where they're granted praise from all, yet if they branched out and shared elsewhere maybe they wouldn't be so great... Funny how experience teaches the best lessons, and rejection of experience teaches snobbiness.


Oh and I wonder who this Addy is... Sounds mystical
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#12
Ahhh , ADDY (Autonomous Data Delivery Yoke) is the site's AI - the software that keeps our wonderful site running.
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#13
I don't write poetry anymore, yet I enjoy this site.  I like reading fresh stuff from people/poets, especially those who I've gained a bit of a sense of.  I really like the critiques, like reading them, at times find them more interesting/entertaining to read than the poems themselves.  I like talking about poetic ideas, the ideas that once inspired me to write poetry.  I like a fresh metaphor, a new twist on a style.  You know, the love of the well spoken word.

I don't know about the snobbishness issue.  Basically speaking, your value to this world as a poet is really next to nothing at best.  I can't think of many less fruitful, more pointless endeavors to partake in than writing poetry.  You're a better human being from a practical standpoint if you dedicate such time volunteering in a soup kitchen.  You'll have more impact upon the the lives of those closest to you if you find ways to make more money in less the amount of time than you do now.  And we all know that poetry isn't about money.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that if anyone comes off as a snobby "poet" to me I know better.  Such snobbiness has no firm ground to stand upon.  "Oh, you're a poet are you? Oh, and you think you're a good one, don't you?   How cute.  But really, and don't take this harshly or the wrong way, so fucking what."
You can't hate me more than I hate myself.  I win.

"When the spirit of justice eloped on the wings
Of a quivering vibrato's bittersweet sting."

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#14
I think naming names would be more funny ^_^

I know I like to hang my nose on my poetry skills...
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#15
Nobody,

That's exactly the basis of my observation! The act of 'patronage' is extinct, the only way a poet can become successful from their work is if they convert it into music, or perhaps they die at an early age and they become more of an 'icon' of sorts.

Q,

As far as snobbishness goes, I wasn't referring to anybody in this forum. I wouldn't go so far as to post the two forum names I was lurking in where my observation stemmed from.. I feel like that might turn this into a bash thread aha. As far as humbleness goes, well so far literally everybody I've interacted with on this forum has shown nothing but that, in one way or the other. Seriously, your quote speaks for itself,
"one must perform oral molestation upon one another"(to humble the next one) Smile
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#16
Someone else posted that a while ago, and at the time I thought they were talking about blowjobs... but Tectak told me it was actually about the forums requirements about posting feedback. Big Grin
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#17
Yeah... If I read that anywhere else but here that'd be my first thought lol.
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#18
(10-06-2015, 09:07 AM)Weeded Wrote:  Or do poets become either more and more snobby or more and more humble as their skill increases?

                A false dichotomy; neither precludes the other.
                "Skill" isn't singular; "increase" isn't quantifiable.

                The saving grace of poetry is that it's worthless; that its motivation is love.
almost terse
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#19
The snobbish, the humble in a snobbish way and the plain humble are boring. The poets are too down to earth, or try too hard to seem like they are. If I was intelligent enough to go to college and learn the rules and run everything I wrote through a course of trial and error and casual and expert advise I could publish some good poems too.
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#20
Like anyone in pretty much any field, poets who receive only praise and pats on the back end up living in a land where all arseholes are full of smoke, and unicorns vomit jellybeans. From their lofty perch atop their own egos, they may dispense such pearls of wisdom as "I am blessed by God with an almighty gift, and I am here to ensure that henceforth all poetry will be written according to my design." You will find them enshrined within the hallowed pages of The New Yorker, now that Oprah no longer has a book club.

On the other hand, poets who are constantly reminded that they're really only masturbating and for crying out loud, if we have to look at it then please at least make it appear as something we haven't seen before, tend to turn out ok. We're only writing poetry because for thousands of years, losers just like us have written poetry that we may draw inspiration from. We hang our words on the bones of giants -- and those who can't handle the smell don't last long. At least not here -- there are plenty of other forums that are built on jellybeans.
It could be worse
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