Modern poetry, meaning and irony
#1
http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/201...d=tw-share

This makes so much sense to me - yet it seems she's a voice in the wilderness.

On the course I'm doing, I'm expected to offer critiques on the chosen workshop poems. There have been two so far that I just can't make head nor tail of, and so have just kept my big mouth shut (for a change) Hysterical

Yet others have commented in the most glowing terms. It leaves me with the 'emperor has no clothes' feeling.

Any thoughts?
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#2
I think the real irony is that often people who claim to be using it actually have no idea what it is.

But yes, there are a hell of a lot of poems out there that say nothing at all, but use interesting enough words to convince the easily-impressed Philistines that there is something more going on. If there's no key, there's no point to having it locked up.
It could be worse
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#3
(07-22-2014, 08:26 AM)Leanne Wrote:  I think the real irony is that often people who claim to be using it actually have no idea what it is.

But yes, there are a hell of a lot of poems out there that say nothing at all, but use interesting enough words to convince the easily-impressed Philistines that there is something more going on. If there's no key, there's no point to having it locked up.

I like to say nothing in as many words as possible, as a matter of typing exercise.Smile


Btw her I would recommend her book Life on Mars to anyone who loves poetry. She has an interesting way of attacking syntax, most of her poems move very quickly.

And there's something about her word choice. On a first glance almost every word in a given line can look almost identical. She likes to group together words with similar shapes and sounds. Simple sentences, complex lines.

(07-22-2014, 08:14 AM)just mercedes Wrote:  http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/201...d=tw-share

This makes so much sense to me - yet it seems she's a voice in the wilderness.

On the course I'm doing, I'm expected to offer critiques on the chosen workshop poems. There have been two so far that I just can't make head nor tail of, and so have just kept my big mouth shut (for a change) Hysterical

Yet others have commented in the most glowing terms. It leaves me with the 'emperor has no clothes' feeling.

Any thoughts?

Yes. The videos are good. Take the workshop with a grain of salt. Most of the people over there are in between terms and out to have a bit of fun.
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#4
some critics like you the fellow critic to have the no cloths feeling. just say what you feel, if you get nothing from it, say so and say why you think it is. from what i've seen many would be critics haven't got a clue either, often they just rewrite what the critic before them wrote and put up a similar piece. i notice that if a good critic speaks in a negative way, so do all the ones who follow; who wants to be different? honesty will get more than silence. irony wears a wry smile.

(07-22-2014, 08:14 AM)just mercedes Wrote:  http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/201...d=tw-share

This makes so much sense to me - yet it seems she's a voice in the wilderness.

On the course I'm doing, I'm expected to offer critiques on the chosen workshop poems. There have been two so far that I just can't make head nor tail of, and so have just kept my big mouth shut (for a change) Hysterical

Yet others have commented in the most glowing terms. It leaves me with the 'emperor has no clothes' feeling.

Any thoughts?
Reply
#5
Affectation Poetry
How long after picking up the brush, the first masterpiece?

The goal is not to obfuscate that which is clear, but make clear that which isn't.
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#6
Well, I think we live in the post-modern era if we are talking about literature, but the only thing pithy I can say about this is that I don't think she would like a Sestina. However, if you want to change the world I think your best bet would be gaining some stake in the media or finding a way to spread your message. It seems like poetry is going to be inevitably recondite to a degree that makes it inaccessible. In addition, the point of views brought forth in poetry are likely going to be preaching to the choir. I could be wrong though. Anthologized poems that are released into public school systems are tremendously influential. As far as a lot of the poetry released today, I unfortunately don't know much about it. However, I think, as some have pointed out previously, that the theme of identity is very important. This seems to be because people have criticized the western cannon which is largely a history told by powerful white men.
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#7
you are supposed to lay bare your soul and be deep. Lots of depth is important. depth and sentimentality. and a meaning that can be summed up in three words or less. and depth. there should be a moral too. But that is not as unpretentious as depth.

if you don't understand something it means that the author would never write it any differently, and they are only trying to insult you personally, because they in some way were able to imagine you as a reader and every thought you may possibly have when they wrote it, and poetry is very personal.

modernism is often quiet selective about it its audience, increasing its range by narrowing the target audience

if you ever write something people like, stick with it. Don't ever try anything new, and never bother trying to learn anything. be a good little bitch. There is nothing to be learned because poetry is not made with words.


and when poets say things in the new york times they are not trying to sell you anything.
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#8
TE's spurious irony aside, poetry is dead, modernism killed it because modernism couldn't understand the difference between sentiment and sentimentalism.
How long after picking up the brush, the first masterpiece?

The goal is not to obfuscate that which is clear, but make clear that which isn't.
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#9
reading that I envision a sort of mindless drone chanting it.

modernism like all periods varies quite a bit, and has spawned many imitators. Not all of any esthetic is ever good without any bad.

The important thing is to understand that and stay balanced.

The Movements, etc themselves are not important to me.
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#10

Vis-à-vis that New York Times article:

1. It's ironic that people befuddled by irony can create enough
    of it to drown any who understand it.

2. Poets should never attempt to write anything other than poetry.

3. The New York Times can no longer afford editors.

almost terse
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