(12-10-2022, 11:19 PM)TranquillityBase Wrote:  Accidental creatures          Don't like this as not biologically accurate but see where you were going
crawling deep into caves
to return their dead 
by flickering firelight     in?
to the original dark.     Nice opening stanza

Brains the size of oranges
they chitter and claw
feasting on antelope.
Predators cannot follow
but listen at the entrance

and drift away in boredom       Don't like boredom either.  maybe...'eventually drift away' but that's boring too.  'then drift away'
hungry for bigger prey.
Humanity’s lost children      Like these three lines
watching their shadows
play on the cave walls    consider keeping for rhythm

their prehensile laughter        
does not wake their dead
they expect no God,    hope for? wait for?
no Savior, only sunrise.

(12-11-2022, 02:11 AM)busker Wrote:  I wonder why this is in 'Basic'. The poem itself is anything but.
'This poem is a great example of showing, not telling.
The following are particularly evocative:

'original dark'
'predators....listen at the entrance'
'shadows.....cave walls'
'prehensile laughter'

the last two lines are extraordinary

(12-11-2022, 01:49 PM)brynmawr1 Wrote:  

(12-10-2022, 11:19 PM)TranquillityBase Wrote:  Accidental creatures          Don't like this as not biologically accurate but see where you were going. Curious?  why not?
crawling deep into caves
to return their dead 
by flickering firelight     in?  yes
to the original dark.     Nice opening stanza

Brains the size of oranges
they chitter and claw
feasting on antelope.
Predators cannot follow
but listen at the entrance

and drift away in boredom       Don't like boredom either.  maybe...'eventually drift away' but that's boring too.  'then drift away'. boredom now has two strikes....I'll have to revisit
hungry for bigger prey.
Humanity’s lost children      Like these three lines
watching their shadows
play on the cave walls    consider keeping for rhythm

their prehensile laughter        
does not wake their dead
they expect no God,    hope for? wait for?  I like wait for
no Savior, only sunrise.

Hi TqB
Really enjoyed this.  I like your historical poems and how you take a few historical facts and create a narrative around them.  Made some half hearted suggestions above.  Especially liked the ending.  My one final thought would be to make a new stanza by splitting S2 and S3 to combine the predator parts.
take care,
bryn

(12-12-2022, 05:33 AM)Mark A Becker Wrote:  Hi Tim-
I have pondered the subject of your poem many times.

---

ps. Yours is an outstanding poem, as is. I will admit that I have stolen your idea, and much appreciate the inspiration. Please sue me if you ever see it published, though this turnip is already about bled out...  I wouldn't steal it if I didn't love it. It will reside in my personal collection.

---

Hello again Tim -

Accidental creatures  not sure this line woks    it's a favorite, because it is the firstborn
crawling deep into caves maybe past tense would work better, throughout      hmmmm...I'll ponder on that.  Kinda sweet on present tense.
to return their dead
by flickering firelight
to the original dark. love the phrase "original dark"

Brains the size of oranges blah    blah as in yuck?
they chitter and claw ok    i might agree on claw, but really like chitter
feasting on antelope.
Predators cannot follow
but listen at the entrance yes- the listening works really well...

and drift away in boredom ... but "in boredom" not so much   two strikes against boredom (u & Bryn)
hungry for bigger prey. I don't hink you need this line    by george (who was George anway?) i think you're right
Humanity’s lost children cool observation, yet "lost children" isn't working for me (at least)  my least favorite line
watching their shadows of course, just as suggested by Plato (who probably did some shadow watching, as well)
play on the cave walls

their prehensile laughter  Had to look up "prehensile" and it's a great word choice
does not wake their dead  unsure of this line, because the dead cannot be awakened   does not forget?
they expect no God,
no Savior, only sunrise. These last two lines are worth the price of admission

Really, really good effort, Tim.  I said I stole the premise of this poem and I'll post a version that it inspired in me, in MISC, with a nod to you, of course.
Thanks for this one Tim.  It really made me think.
Mark

(12-10-2022, 11:19 PM)TranquillityBase Wrote:  Accidental creatures
crawling deep into caves
to return their dead 
by flickering firelight
to the original dark. What if you were to change the tense from the present participle to the present simple?

Brains the size of oranges Might I suggest a fruit that's indigenous to the S. African region or even an extinct fruit that was a large part of the prehistoric human diet?
they chitter and claw
feasting on antelope.
Predators cannot follow,
cock ears and listen, I think if you were to include "they...", this sentence would be easier to follow

smell smoke and drift on. I don't really understand beginning another stanza at this line
Fresco of time’s children love this phrasing
watching their shadows
play on the cave walls could you omit "the"?

their prehensile laughter Same critique as the first line from the previous stanza
does not forget the dead.
They wait for no God,
no Savior, only sunrise. Very nice finish

Accidental creatures 
crawling deep into caves
to return their dead 
by flickering firelight
to the original dark.

Brains the size of oranges
they chitter and claw
feasting on antelope.
Predators cannot follow
but listen at the entrance

and drift away in boredom
hungry for bigger prey.
Humanity’s lost children
watching their shadows
play on the cave walls

their prehensile laughter
does not wake their dead
they expect no God,
no Savior, only sunrise.

(12-25-2022, 05:25 AM)Velasco Wrote:  Hey TqB,

Enjoyed the poem and the idea of it! Thoughts below.
[quote="TranquillityBase" pid='262327' dateline='1670681991']
Accidental creatures
crawling deep into caves
to return their dead 
by flickering firelight
to the original dark. What if you were to change the tense from the present participle to the present simple?  Yes

Brains the size of oranges Might I suggest a fruit that's indigenous to the S. African region or even an extinct fruit that was a large part of the prehistoric human diet?   Hmmm....I'll see what I can find
they chitter and claw
feasting on antelope.
Predators cannot follow,
cock ears and listen, I think if you were to include "they...", this sentence would be easier to follow   OK

smell smoke and drift on. I don't really understand beginning another stanza at this line  Not completely clear on this but I think I get it.  I will experiment with it
Fresco of time’s children love this phrasing     thanks, this was a last gasp attempt on a weak line
watching their shadows
play on the cave walls could you omit "the"?  yes

their prehensile laughter Same critique as the first line from the previous stanza
does not forget the dead.
They wait for no God,
no Savior, only sunrise. Very nice finish

(12-10-2022, 11:19 PM)TranquillityBase Wrote:  Accidental creatures 
crawling deep into caves
to return their dead 
by flickering firelight
to the original dark.

Brains the size of oranges
they chitter and claw
feasting on antelope.
Predators cannot follow,
cock ears and listen, - the original “they listen at the entrance” had more of a hint of danger. “Cock ears and listen” would be my border collie. Here, detail spoils the charm.

smell smoke and drift on. - the original “drift away in boredom” was okay. Not perfect, but okay. To imply that said predators would drift away only when smelling smoke is, again, a piece of bland detail. Really? Smell smoke? Coming from inside the cave? Enough fire to generate enough smoke to scare away predators? What would that do for the carbon monoxide poisoning situation?


Fresco of time’s children ….. I like the idea of stick figures watching the shadows of those who painted them, but this line is clunky. “Humanity’s lost children” in the original was also true for H Naledi - sized like children, and lost.
watching their shadows
play on the cave walls

their prehensile laughter
does not forget the dead. … so they laugh but don’t forget the dead? I don’t quite follow. Laughter n  our waking the dead, OTOH, was perfect, even though one might wonder why the rhetorical point was being made 
They wait for no God, “expect” in the original sounded better 
no Savior, only sunrise.

Accidental creatures 
crawling deep into caves
to return their dead 
by flickering firelight
to the original dark.

Brains the size of oranges
they chitter and claw
feasting on antelope.
Predators cannot follow
but listen at the entrance

and drift away in boredom
hungry for bigger prey.
Humanity’s lost children
watching their shadows
play on the cave walls

their prehensile laughter
does not wake their dead
they expect no God,
no Savior, only sunrise.

(12-25-2022, 06:52 AM)busker Wrote:  [quote="TranquillityBase" pid='262327' dateline='1670681991']
Accidental creatures 
crawling deep into caves
to return their dead 
by flickering firelight
to the original dark.

Brains the size of oranges
they chitter and claw
feasting on antelope.
Predators cannot follow,
cock ears and listen, - the original “they listen at the entrance” had more of a hint of danger. “Cock ears and listen” would be my border collie. Here, detail spoils the charm.    OK, I'll revisit the predators.  I no longer remember what the objections were but there was more than one criticism of "drift away in boredom"

smell smoke and drift on. - the original “drift away in boredom” was okay. Not perfect, but okay. To imply that said predators would drift away only when smelling smoke is, again, a piece of bland detail. Really? Smell smoke? Coming from inside the cave? Enough fire to generate enough smoke to scare away predators? What would that do for the carbon monoxide poisoning situation?

I guess my understanding was that most predators have remarkably keen senses of smell and hearing.  Actual smoke would not need to be coming out of the cave.


Fresco of time’s children ….. I like the idea of stick figures watching the shadows of those who painted them, but this line is clunky. “Humanity’s lost children” in the original was also true for H Naledi - sized like children, and lost.  I felt uncomfortable with "Humanity's lost children" although I wrote it in the sense you state.  "Fresco of time's children" now seems too precious.
watching their shadows
play on the cave walls

their prehensile laughter
does not forget the dead. … so they laugh but don’t forget the dead? I don’t quite follow. Laughter n  our waking the dead, OTOH, was perfect, even though one might wonder why the rhetorical point was being made Wanted to bring the dead back somehow in the last lines
They wait for no God, “expect” in the original sounded better OK
no Savior, only sunrise.

My overall impression is that you’re tinkering with something that’s fairly close to perfect