"Does it matter what we call it?" shouldn't have been closed and moved to the Sewer.

That's not in keeping with Pig Pen's tradition of speaking freely.

Just because discussions regarding racism aren't pleasant, doesn't mean they
should be stopped and hidden. The thread contained much useful discussion,
much more than the marginal stuff.

Ray

I agree, but OP made the decision as a member and not as a moderator afaik.

I gave myself the same courtesy I'd give any other member whose thread had gone off track no matter how much they tried to bring it back. I blame myself for not creating an OP that functioned well.

Anyone who wants to can start part two. The original was not deleted, it's there for reference.

As admin I ask that you keep it in the sewer so it can be completely unmoderated and the rest of us can use our spare time reading poetry if we wish. Have at it.

it's still there to post in if people wish.

(09-20-2017, 05:28 PM)billy Wrote:  it's still there to post in if people wish.

I closed it but you're welcome to reopen it if you'd like. I don't care, I'm done with it.

(09-20-2017, 06:08 PM)ellajam Wrote:  

(09-20-2017, 05:28 PM)billy Wrote:  it's still there to post in if people wish.

I closed it but you're welcome to reopen it if you'd like. I don't care, I'm done with it.

    No need to stay embarrassed, take your name off it and make me the OP.
    I just want the censorship stopped and have the thread put it back where it belongs.

(09-20-2017, 08:16 PM)rayheinrich Wrote:  

(09-20-2017, 06:08 PM)ellajam Wrote:  

(09-20-2017, 05:28 PM)billy Wrote:  it's still there to post in if people wish.

I closed it but you're welcome to reopen it if you'd like. I don't care, I'm done with it.

    No need to stay embarrassed, take your name off it and make me the OP.
    I just want the censorship stopped and have the thread put it back where it belongs.

It is where it belongs, where mods are not responsible for it and are not obligated to read it. The only posts that were deleted were self-deleted by various members along the way.

Achebe has already started a new thread to continue the discussion. Post there or not, it's up to you.

Thanks for explaining the mechanics of the lockout.  I'm pleased that the discussion continued in an iteresting manner for as long as it did.

Oops,  this is for discussing whether the thread should have been moved. 
I’ve moved my comments on racism to Achebe’s “When does the present begin?” thread.

(09-20-2017, 09:28 PM)ellajam Wrote:  

(09-20-2017, 08:16 PM)rayheinrich Wrote:  

(09-20-2017, 06:08 PM)ellajam Wrote:  I closed it but you're welcome to reopen it if you'd like. I don't care, I'm done with it.

    No need to stay embarrassed, take your name off it and make me the OP.
    I just want the censorship stopped and have the thread put it back where it belongs.

It is where it belongs, where mods are not responsible for it and are not obligated to read it. The only posts that were deleted were self-deleted by various members along the way.

Achebe has already started a new thread to continue the discussion. Post there or not, it's up to you.

This explains your reason for moving it (not that I agree);
but it doesn't explain why it still needs to be locked now that it's in the sewer.

What's the explanation for that?

The explanation is that Ella is the OP of the thread.  As the OP, she isn't required to give a public reason for wanting her own thread closed or moved or even removed.  When anyone else asks us to move their thread from forum to forum, we comply.  Ella wanted her own thread to be moved to the sewer, so now it lives in the sewer.  Ella wanted her own thread to be closed, so now it is closed.  If you want to continue the original discussion, there has already been a new thread opened for that.

Ella takes on so much of the workload here that it is easy to forget she can also function as simply a poet or an op. If you wanted one of your threads to be moved to the sewer, I would move it there for you and you would not have to make a public service announcement as to why.  If you notice in her original comment about the decision she said "at the OP's request." In this situation she wasn't moderating someone else's thread, she was simply having a preference about her own.  No rights have been infringed upon (other than Ella's for being required to defend a decision she is allowed to make as the OP).  Thank you for understanding.

All that Quix said about Ella is true.

The OP can move their thread where they like and request it closed. Some of the comments (many that were deleted by the posters themselves) would have landed the thread in the sewer anyway.

Why is it in the Sewer? Because some of the language choices weren't suitable for general anymore. Any thread that goes down that path either gets moved to the Arse if its poetry related or to the Sewer if it's a general discussion.

The thread is not deleted merely closed. It's hardly censorship. Start a new thread if you like. If it gets out of hand for the forum it's in, it can remain open it just won't remain in General.

(09-21-2017, 02:45 AM)Quixilated Wrote:  The explanation is that Ella is the OP of the thread.  As the OP, she isn't required to give a public reason for wanting her own thread closed or moved or even removed.  When anyone else asks us to move their thread from forum to forum, we comply.  Ella wanted her own thread to be moved to the sewer, so now it lives in the sewer.  Ella wanted her own thread to be closed, so now it is closed.  If you want to continue the original discussion, there has already been a new thread opened for that.

Ella takes on so much of the workload here that it is easy to forget she can also function as simply a poet or an op. If you wanted one of your threads to be moved to the sewer, I would move it there for you and you would not have to make a public service announcement as to why.  If you notice in her original comment about the decision she said "at the OP's request." In this situation she wasn't moderating someone else's thread, she was simply having a preference about her own.  No rights have been infringed upon (other than Ella's for being required to defend a decision she is allowed to make as the OP).  Thank you for understanding.

Sure, Ella can do it, no question about that. I was complaining about her having done it.

And yes, she owes me no explanation, I was just personally asking for one.

As to practicality, there were other mods participating in the thread,
there was no need for Ella to put in any additional work.

As to rights being infringed, well yes there were.
Maybe not in a big way, but in a way I thought was important to object to.

1. A thread with an ongoing discussion about an important topic was closed abruptly.
2. It was moved from a public space to the "sewer".

Racism is an important topic to discuss, it shouldn't be suppressed because people feel uncomfortable.  


Anyway... it happened, I got to note my objections, life goes on.

Back to writing poems about love-sick ducks,
Ray

P.S. Hugs, Ella. I may complain, but that doesn't mean I don't respect
how much work you put in here and don't have a secret crush on you.

Racism is indeed an important issue to discuss, and should be discussed freely, without pejorative terms that are highly offensive to many readers and without inflaming stereotypes that do little justice to the intellect and emotional intelligence supposedly available to poets, thus the Sewer became the only possible home for the thread.

It has never been the policy of the Pig Pen to allow highly inflammatory posts in the more public parts of the site, regardless of the fact that these are members only. Signing up for a poetry website does not mean you need access to offensive material unless you so choose, and opt in to The Sewer. As for your precious "free speech":

"People demand freedom of speech as compensation for the freedom of thought that they seldom use." (Soren Kierkegaard)

Which posts were highly offensive? Is suggesting that people find better stuff to do than argue about statues highly offensive?

(09-21-2017, 06:48 AM)QDeathstar Wrote:  Which posts were highly offensive? Is suggesting that people find better stuff to do than argue about statues highly offensive?

Some of yours actually. Is this a revelation?

Which ones? Or maybe some truth is offensive, and if it is better to face it than play pretend.

The deleted ones.

pejorative terms that are highly offensive

You know full well which ones. Your wide-eyed innocence is too late to the party.

(09-21-2017, 06:54 AM)Todd Wrote:  The deleted ones.

I deleted that one myself as soon as I posted it. It was about being called racist. First card that drops whenever you start talking about things like this. I'm not racist, I have a black friend, and btw actions speak louder than words ever could. #clichedrop.


Honestly I'm not going to apologize for something I said (then deleted) to make liberal white people feel better about thier past.