what do poets (on this site) think of themselves regarding being a poet. are you a good, bad or mediocre poet. the only thing in this thread we can't do is say to someone else, no, no, you are a good poet. it's not a praise thread.
it's about what we ourselves see in our poetry and not what other's see.

i think i'm just above average, better than most but worse than many.
i'm not as deep into poetry as i should be, though i do love poetry. i'm more well read now than i ever was having learned more this passed two years than the rest of my life put together. i can name and even remember a few poets and some of their works. my feedback is also just above average being better than most but worse than many.

I have improved in giving feedback and writing poetry simply because i have read more poetry and given more feedback. i've learned things every poet should know but few do, (many have been told about cliche but they don't do anything about it in their poetry etc) i'm knocking on a bit and i'm not as quick a learner as i use to be. but i'm able to see the change in other poets over a much shorter period of time that it took me to improve.

what do i think of other poets here and on other sites. (yeah, it a valid part of the what kind of poet i am)
mainly they're really lousy poets, but weren't we all. i see many of them ignoring what i now see as some of the most basic mistakes even after the mistakes have been pointed out to the. many ignore feedback with a vengeance and i know that inside they really believe they know better, i know this because at first it was how i was. YOU DON"T KNOW BETTER, you're shite, accept the fact and move on.

the two main types of poet if i have to stereotype them are the newb. they write a poem and think it's great...then their world falls apart and they begin picking up the pieces of disillusionment and start their journey to become a better and in an exceptional case, even good poet.

then you have the 2nd type, the poet that just knows they're a great poet. anyone giving constructive feedback to these poets are just out and out jealous bastards. these poets will be churning out the same shite for decades to come. i always wonder why this type of poet joins workshops like the pen? (very peculiar)

it's because of the 2nd type that i actually began to take heed of feedback. i saw how they fought against it, and how their poetry suffered for it.

there is a third type of poet, i'd call them the accomplished poet, they know all the basics, they learned their craft and have been using it for a pretty long time. we're lucky enough to have some of this type on the site to help us low casts learn what really is a craft.

these poets seldom make fundamental mistakes. often write good poetry compared to bad poetry and for the main part don't really need feedback.

so what of you. me, i think im a type 2, i'll never be a type 3 but it's good knowing some have made the good journey

This is a tough question billy, not because people want to be modest or unduly proud. Good and Bad are such relative terms. Compared to every poet who posts in a forum, how are you? Compared to the published poets you enjoy, how do you stack up?

Here's all I can say, and I'm being completely honest. I'm better than I was last year. Last year I was better than I was three years ago, and so on. It's about continuous improvement and putting in the work.

I know I'll have to spend a year or more on writing blank verse.

I know I'll have to consider line breaks, and imagery, and diction for the rest of my life.

And I would challenge one other thing no matter who you are you can benefit from feedback. I love "Sex Without Love" by Sharon Olds. I would have loved to have written it. She has a few crap line breaks in it. That isn't even debatable. That said, it's a brilliant poem. It could be better though.

My goal is to get better. I'm only competing against myself, so the yardstick of good and bad doesn't apply.

Just my thoughts.

I feel like this is the type of thread that could use a poll.

good answer todd.
i see the majority as average, so that's my base line. it all depends how each person creates their own baseline.

(11-17-2013, 11:34 AM)Todd Wrote:  This is a tough question billy, not because people want to be modest or unduly proud. Good and Bad are such relative terms. Compared to every poet who posts in a forum, how are you? Compared to the published poets you enjoy, how do you stack up?

Here's all I can say, and I'm being completely honest. I'm better than I was last year. Last year I was better than I was three years ago, and so on. It's about continuous improvement and putting in the work.

I know I'll have to spend a year or more on writing blank verse.

I know I'll have to consider line breaks, and imagery, and diction for the rest of my life.

And I would challenge one other thing no matter who you are you can benefit from feedback. I love "Sex Without Love" by Sharon Olds. I would have loved to have written it. She has a few crap line breaks in it. That isn't even debatable. That said, it's a brilliant poem. It could be better though.

My goal is to get better. I'm only competing against myself, so the yardstick of good and bad doesn't apply.

Just my thoughts.

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i did a poll

(11-17-2013, 12:01 PM)billy Wrote:  good answer todd.
i see the majority as average, so that's my base line. it all depends how each person creates their own baseline.

(11-17-2013, 11:34 AM)Todd Wrote:  This is a tough question billy, not because people want to be modest or unduly proud. Good and Bad are such relative terms. Compared to every poet who posts in a forum, how are you? Compared to the published poets you enjoy, how do you stack up?

Here's all I can say, and I'm being completely honest. I'm better than I was last year. Last year I was better than I was three years ago, and so on. It's about continuous improvement and putting in the work.

I know I'll have to spend a year or more on writing blank verse.

I know I'll have to consider line breaks, and imagery, and diction for the rest of my life.

And I would challenge one other thing no matter who you are you can benefit from feedback. I love "Sex Without Love" by Sharon Olds. I would have loved to have written it. She has a few crap line breaks in it. That isn't even debatable. That said, it's a brilliant poem. It could be better though.

My goal is to get better. I'm only competing against myself, so the yardstick of good and bad doesn't apply.

Just my thoughts.

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i did a poll

If everyone elects I will post a Pareto diagram with the results.

i elect isn't that enough

come on people. just respond to the post for brownie points :J:

(11-17-2013, 12:33 PM)billy Wrote:  i elect isn't that enough

come on people. just respond to the post for brownie points :J:

for a proper Pareto with this many options I need at least 20 data points, ideally more.

I would say 'not so good'. I haven't devoted enough time or attention to it for it to actually be something that I can say I'm improving on either. I find it hard to right in any style. Well, correction. I don't find it hard to write in any particular style, I find it hard to write in any particular style and have it feel sincere, or for it to be even of good quality. I find it hard to find inspiration for poetry. I'm not very cultured in poetry either, so there aren't very many that I know about or appreciate.

(11-17-2013, 12:35 PM)milo Wrote:  

(11-17-2013, 12:33 PM)billy Wrote:  i elect isn't that enough

come on people. just respond to the post for brownie points :J:

for a proper Pareto with this many options I need at least 20 data points, ideally more.

There are problems of definition, always, in rating any art form. Poetry is more susceptible to praise, faint or genuine, than say, painting or sculpture. This is simply because the connection between the poet and the poem is one of great personal variation...and more often than not it is the failure of the reader to lock on to the thinking of the poet that causes rancour.
To define the poet by the poem, or to ask a poet how he/she feels about his/her poetry is unrealistic because the relationship is a transitory and shifting state.
I have many times looked at the output of writers with a view to "rating" the effectiveness of their words--by that, of course, I am being judgemental-- in transmitting to me either of two things
1) The emotion of the poet.
2) The emotion which the POEM invokes/instills in me.

I came to the conclusion many years ago that it is quite pointless, and purposeless, judging poetry on anything other than these two facets of the poetic endeavour.
Now if I am asked, how do I decide who is the good poet/bad poet, I can answer truthfully, I don't; BUT I can tell you when I read (or write!) a good poem.
To criticise with reservations is a failure of nerve.Todd made a similar point on Sharon Olds' line breaks. Undeniably SOME poets produce MORE poetry which satisfies the 2-point test than others yet I cannot help but conclude (as I think milo intimated) that this is a quantum averaging of minutae...and erthona would criticise some poetry by every poet who ever lived. Good for him. I wish I had read that much.
For myself, I guess I fall somewhere between very good and fucking appalling. At least, that's what I strive for...somebody else may disagree
Best,
tectak

all i'm asking is how people see themselves as poets, not how they see other poets or other peoples poetry.

(11-17-2013, 07:02 PM)billy Wrote:  all i'm asking is how people see themselves as poets, not how they see other poets or other peoples poetry.

Ah. Sorry. I forgot what the question was

You didn't have the option of "pants" in the poll.
If you did it would come between average and not so good I think.
My poetry is pants...some of it is less than attractive and I am rightly ashamed when I look at it. Some of it is functional and like granny's harvest festivals they can be largely said to cover the subject, but fall well short of being attractive. I think most of my poetry could be said to be functional in that it has some requisite features of definable poetry...but should my poetry be put on public display...well no not really. I view the poetry forum as the equivalent of an AA meeting where similarly afflicted members can show their dirty laundry in a safe public environment. One day I might accidentally find I have a set of pants that is pretty and all lacy and attractive - readers will be lined up to get an eyeful. Meanwhile I will continue to put my unmentionables in the tumble dryer rather than on the washing line.

(11-18-2013, 12:05 AM)cidermaid Wrote:  You didn't have the option of "pants" in the poll.
If you did it would come between average and not so good I think.
My poetry is pants...some of it is less than attractive and I am rightly ashamed when I look at it. Some of it is functional and like granny's harvest festivals they can be largely said to cover the subject, but fall well short of being attractive. I think most of my poetry could be said to be functional in that it has some requisite features of definable poetry...but should my poetry be put on public display...well no not really. I view the poetry forum as the equivalent of an AA meeting where similarly afflicted members can show their dirty laundry in a safe public environment. One day I might accidentally find I have a set of pants that is pretty and all lacy and attractive - readers will be lined up to get an eyeful. Meanwhile I will continue to put my unmentionables in the tumble dryer rather than on the washing line.

ha, My name is M and I write down my mind babble.

Going by billy's definition of "average" above, using this site's users as a baseline, I'd say I'm almost average. But that's only because I've been learning a lot, mostly thanks to you all.
I've been writing poetry since I could write (quite literally) but I've made vast improvements this past year. A few months ago I was still godawful. I like to think that I learn from critiques, (and more so now than before) and that I'm a decently quick learner. But mostly I'm still just embarrassed of everything I write.
But who knows, I'm still pretty young so maybe I might get up to above average some day, if I stay serious about it. ;p

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And AJ, yes to the AA meeting comparison!

Improving nod fro me.

I always wrote poetry but never touched even a hint of training until now. I didn't know what metre was or schemes or voltas or refrains, etc... I read a lot of poetry but it was always simply, 'this sounds good to me' as the only criteria. Since arriving, I've instead fully vaulted myself into the obsession and am legitimately aspiring to be a great writer of poetry.

(11-17-2013, 07:27 PM)tectak Wrote:  

(11-17-2013, 07:02 PM)billy Wrote:  all i'm asking is how people see themselves as poets, not how they see other poets or other peoples poetry.

Ah. Sorry. I forgot what the question was

and your answer it seems

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well said you two...not as to how you see yourselves but as to how you both hope to improve.
aj. most of us write pants poetry sometimes pants poetry is above the average you read on the internet :J:

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come on you newbs, wet your feet and join in with poll

Who changed the last option? (Didn't it originally read "I'm not a poet")...Oooo you're gona be in so much trouble (with Leanne).

Billy - i was being very honest. I am a harsh self critic and do not think anything I do is any good. My poetry comes under the same evaluation....but I would need two votes because whilst I think my poetry is currently rightly tagged Pants...I also think I am improving and would give most of the credit for this to the help I have recieved on the site.
I guess the option in the middle of these is above average, so i am going to place my vote here.

billy, you're such a wanker.

AJ, I hate everything I write. Always will, I suspect. As time goes by, though, I've come to realise that other people might not -- and I've had people chastise me for arguing with them if they say they've enjoyed something, as if by saying "it's nothing special" it devalues their opinion. It's a fine line. I just try to make sure I keep disagreeing with them quietly

I wrote my first poem just over a year ago and joined this site in the same week, I enjoy writing poems some work better than others but that is usually achieved from working with or reading others feedback and poetry. I would say that to become above average I would need to put more work in than I'm in a position to do. So for now I will continue to write crap one day and believe I stand a chance at good the next. I am delusional in that when I write something that evokes an emotion in me, it must be great. The bubble usually bursts the following day and yet I still post straight off the bat without reading it back properly. Thankfully we have members that are truthful and experienced, who are kind enough to give up their time to wipe my nose and button up my coat when its cold. I hope always to improve but recognise that the process is slow and bumpy.

my first reaction to anything i write is....that's fucking perfect...then i read it again and see it isn't i do this a few time and post it thinking it's pretty good...the feedback tells me different and i have to say most of the feedback i get seems honest and unpretentious.