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we are so incredibly ridiculously fortunate in so many ways and I admittedly take it for granted worrying about what people think or what shirt to wear, what movie to watch or what to do on the weekend .......... none of those things are as important as they sometimes seem

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=

http://www.youtube.com/watch?annotation_...QL9Zrokk&v=

We are the fortunate ones, so what can we do for the others?

rowens

That can be the mission of your life, if you make it. Finding some kind of work that can help at least somebody. There are many kinds of studies for new ways to deal with psychological problems, as you know; and different styles of helping people there. And there are ways of getting food and clothing and homes for people. You can dedicate yourself to figuring out better ways to manage those systems; and making sure that someone as understanding and empathetic as yourself is as informed and talented in those areas, so that when others are tempted to get greedy or lazy, you can step up and keep the ball rolling.

I like to go to the movies. I just like it. I rarely ever go any more, though. I usually watch bootleg copies for free. If you think about all the money that goes into big budget movies, and all the ticket sales, and you think about how some people don't even have enough money to eat or buy clothes for their children, it makes you wonder if going to the movies is such a good idea. That money could be used for better things. Yet we do need entertainment and art: so how do we go about dealing with that issue? why does it all have to be about money: the middleman?

And there's much more to consider...
I absolutely appreciate your reply - and you are right, this is just a slice of the pie. It can be overwhelming .. the complexities of what is going on, and I don't know everything - it waters the seeds of despair in me and clouds my vision leading me to inaction a lot of the time. I just can't afford to be depressed anymore.. when there are people out there who can't afford to - and beings who don't know anything but pain. I have to find some kind of concrete solution. I just hope I'm not deluded. I see a lot of "solutions" out there, especially in the green movement. It took me a while to realize claiming to be green is part of a selling scheme, and it doesn't necessarily mean a companies affect on the environment and the world is truly positive. We don't need to contribute to this sinking ship but a lot of people believe there is nothing they can do or fall into lip service schemes, believing they are doing something good when in actuality it is having a negative effect behind the scenes. Everyone needs to go about buying products like a journalist so they know the full picture. Example, buying a shirt that says "Protect Our World" - that was made in china, in a sweatshop, possibly by a child who can't afford a better life, yet we concern ourselves with products that rub our altruistic ego to make it look/make us feel like we are doing something good - while the impact is more satisfying for our minds than the world. It is a trap.

I am trying to learn to accept, so I have a clearer head in going about everything - thich nhat hahn is very helpful in this video : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=

I found this video interesting as well when it comes to the money system, http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=

thank you very much for everything you've said, a discussion like this gives me hope.

(thanks billy)
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I do wish I could do more for others than I can. For now, I'm a student. For now, all I can really do is learn. Someday, I will use what I learn to improve the lives of others. But for now, the best I can do is expose myself.

And what I take for granted the most is probably the internet, not really knowing what life was like without it. Partly because I didn't do anything before discovering it besides reading, and reading isn't something that allows me to gauge time.


Now, I do have something to say on our materialistic society, if I may do so. It's in a spoiler, just for brevity.



Honestly, it's capitalism. Not necessarily that it makes those children have to be slaves. Well, not on purpose.
Capitalism encourages several different attitudes. Like innovation, and ambition. It also encourages greed, and while not all people are greedy, there are many who are. Without greed, capitalism does not function. It needs those exploited workers, those poor souls.

See, capitalism is a growing, spiraling thing. It works by getting larger. It works because of debt. That sucks some serious balls for those who aren't the one percent. It's a really interesting thing: while the theory is that those who work get ahead, and the lazy people fall behind, it doesn't work that way.
There are only a number of spots up there. The system isn't going to make room for more people. You might notice there are a few popular The landed get more money, and the aspiring can't reach them when they try. Though the U.S. government has regulations to prevent monopolies, it has made exceptions when the job can't be done by anything but a monopoly, which has happened before.

But that's capitalism. We don't actually have that here. If we did, businesses would be making sex-robot-guns out of baby skin. Well, the successful ones would. What we have is a mixture of capitalism and socialism. On the whole "Capitalism-Communism" spectrum, the U.S. sits somewhere around 75% capitalist. We've moved to the left in past years, but we have fluctuated since we were first a country.

Something people love to point out when talking about regulation is that communism has never been successful. That's true. Neither has capitalism.
Oh, don't get me wrong, it lasts long. But that's because of a few reasons:
1) It has popular support, because it sounds very nice, just like communism. Unlike communism, it's biggest supporters are landed men.
2) It works the way a fire does, where adding fuel lets it burn longer. But it is in no way a controlled and closed system. It requires stimulus, since it literally runs on debt. But, that's much better than simply not being possible. Which segues me nicely to...
3) Communism was founded on altruism. On the idea that people would have what they would need, and just that. But that is not natural, not at all. Instinct, formed by years of evolution, reinforces greed. Ambition, a need to have something better is natural. Maybe not good, but natural. So, while communism fails because it's unrealistic and doesn't work right, capitalism fails because it works the way it is supposed to. To me, collapsing because it works seems to be a sign that a theory is not that great of an idea.

We have to make a compromise between unrealistic hopes and idiotic reality. At least, that's how it seems to me. Again, I'm not a genius so I don't know how to fix, well, anything now that I think about it. Least of all the world economy.
Just voicing my opinion. Maybe I'm horribly, horribly wrong. I don't know. I'd have to tell someone what I think and hear what they have to say to be able to judge with any degree of accuracy.
Huh. Of course, there are several new replies posted before I've finished.

rowens

Things are addictive. TV, Computer, whatever. We get attached to them like people we love.

It's about people though. Rather than systems. Most people are never put in a position to question things, it just doesn't come up. It doesn't occur to them.

And while there are consciously "bad" or "evil" people; most of it is unconscious forces, or unconscious agents working through people in groups... that lead to serious problems. Large numbers of people adding to problems in ways that they're not aware of.

People treat horrible things like a comedy. "Yes, we know bad things are being done to people. But it's not our fault, and we can't do anything about it." So we make jokes about the government, and about criminals, and we just accept things as they are. Or people figure that they'll just wait until they feel better fit and more capable of doing something: but most likely they'll never feel that way. You have to do unnatural, uncomfortable things with little or no preparation; because the longer you cling to your comfortable life, the harder it'll be to break the habits.

One of the biggest problems is that the way society is set up, you can't function without supporting some things that you don't agree with. In the 1960s, people tried to boycott everything in corporate society, and it didn't work. It's too hard. And to give another obvious example: Christ and his followers were all killed except for the ones that compromised. Because you know if Jesus wandered into most churches, that dirty, homeless look would make a lot of the well-to-do uncomfortable.
Disclaimer: These are my thoughts, they are of the nature to change with new and hopefully true information. I can not speak for the world, this is my impression of the society I live in and the information I have found.


Aldous Huxely interview, 1958 (before advertising took a massive hold on the public mind)

Mike: Why do you consistently attack the advertising companies?

Huxely: I think advertisement plays a very necessary role but, the danger seems to me, in a democracy, is this:
What does a democracy depend on? A democracy depends on the individual voter making an intelligent and rational choice for what he regards as his enlightened self interest. In any given circumstance.

But what these people are doing / what boasts their particular purposes is selling goods and the dictatorial propaganda is to try to bypass the rational side of man with these conscious forces below the surface so that you are in a way making nonsense of the whole democratic procedure which is based off conscious choice on irrational grounds.
(dictatorial : typical of a ruler with total power)

I believe we have an illusion of choice. Our choices we make and the perceptions we have to a certain degree are programmed. How can we make a rational choice if we aren't given the full picture? We are hardly ever given the full picture so we become a slave to the system and the information given to us. There is war going on that a lot of us don't see. Once you start to ask questions and get the full picture you begin to see what is really happening "behind the curtain." You begin to see that a lot of people are "sleeping". People living with blinders on - people that can change the world if only they take off the blinders and realize their potential. I am working on taking mine off.

Education is part of the system, if you see something wrong with the system and want to change it you need to take your mind into your own hands. Do not depend primarily on the system for solutions to our problems, it is this system that needs changing. I am not saying you should not go to school, use it as a tool. Take everything you learn with a grain of salt and sit in class objectively observing the information given rather than accepting without questions. (If you do or not I am not sure, but I can tell you I used to take everything as fact with out real contemplative thought) Question everything. Use the information taught combined with the information you teach yourself to create your own solutions. There are a lot of people changing the world and starting great movements without a career and with out an education. Some of the greatest innovators of our time were Autodidacts.

"Innovation distinguishes between a leader and a follower." - Steve Jobs.
The creator who who didn't get a full education and started in his garage. He changed the world and helped bring us the freedom of the internet.

The so called "system" has a lot to hide. Hiding the truth keeps the system afloat. A system that benefits a small number of people at the expense of millions.
There is no amount of volunteer work that will change the situation we are in. It will help individuals at a small scale, but we need to get at the core of our problems to change society at a large scale. We need a full shift. (Read: The Leap)
You need to fight when you have the fight in you before the war is over. If you wait until you have a career to start problem solving, by that time you could be institutionalized. Your priorities will probably be paying off your student debt, having kids, a mortgage, (if these conveniences still exist in a few years time) etc. There wont be time for saving the world when you are all grown up unless you start now. I firmly believe this.

It is in those mundane tasks that we don't often see our contribution to this sinking ship that is the current state of the world. That is where serious introspection needs to be done. Questions like, what happens behind everything we buy and use? Are we taking responsibility for the fact every purchase is a vote for the practices behind every product?
We are as responsible for what happens to the child in the sweatshop who is working on our iPhone (for example) as the people running the factory because we are supporting it. But we often don't realize that. And it is hard to come to terms with this information when what we buy becomes what we feel is a necessity to our way of life. The "system" wants you to be ignorant. It thrives off of it. If all of the curtains in the world were ripped down, you would make very different choices.

Disclaimer: These are my thoughts, they are of the nature to change. I can't speak for the world, this is my impression of the society I live in. If this is absolutely true I cannot say, it is information to consider and research yourself.
Example:
Have you ever noticed the happy cows in a green pasture on the labels of our milk products? This is a lie in many cases of large-scale industrialized agribusiness from the information I understand about the dairy industry in the states,
If we don't ask the hard questions and fight for the truth, we might know they allow pus and blood in our milk and call it the "Somatic Cell count". Cows never see grass in their lifetime in many of these cases. They are in a modern concentration camp packed into tight spaces, pumped with hormones and they are fed gmo corn that they can't properly digest. The pumps on their tits can give them infections. It is those infections and the use of the pumps that can cause them to bleed and pus out, and that is one of the reasons our milk is pasteurized and is no longer as nutritional as it used to be. Pasteurization sterilizes the pus, it doesn't get rid of it. These cows are milked for what they are worth, literally, and their calves are taken away - they never get to taste a drop of their mothers milk in cases I have heard. It seems like many people are as ignorant to what is happening in their own "back yards" as the masses of people who didn't know about the holocaust while it was happening. What is happening in my backyard that I don't know about? What am I ignorant to? I want to know.
Did you know, prominent scientists signed a declaration that animals have conscious awareness, just like us. "Until animals have their own storytellers, humans will always have the most glorious part of the story, and with this proverbial concept in mind, the symposium will address the notion that humans do not alone possess the neurological faculties that constitute consciousness as it is presently understood. " http://fcmconference.org/ We need to just consider the quality of life animals have while they are alive and if they are eaten then humane treatment needs to considered. Whether we eat them or not isn't really the main issue. Although it is a massive issue when we are feeding cattle enough grains to potentially feed the world.
Why do people need calcium supplements to supplement their milk drinking habit? (I know a few) Why do the countries who eat the most meat and dairy have the highest rates of osteoporosis when the claim is "Milk builds strong bones and teeth" ?? (there are factors outside of this statement that can contribute to osteoporosis but this information is something to consider and research) I feel like there is a lot of mixed information and contradictory "facts" being fed to the public in this culture. Everything I said could be false, how do we know if we don't look into it and consider all sides.


That is just a slice of the pie. We need to ask the hard questions. We need to educate ourselves and take our minds into our own hands. We need to seek the whole truth no matter how hard it is to hear it or how depressed it makes us feel because nothing compares to the millions suffering who have no choice but to work for next to nothing to bring us our comforts. There are mentally ill in our society who I feel suffer from some of these hidden truths, these are people who can change things. They need introspection and enlightenment above all else, like ourselves. We have power in our choices as consumers.

The world is going to change, it has to. For the better or the worse, and time is of the essence. This is the time to be alive. In this day and age, everything we do in the world is going to impact the future greater than any time in history. We can make it or break it. Every choice we make has an affect on people around the world today and in the future. Realize that everything is interconnected.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=

"We need media that is brought to us by something other than corporations that have nothing to tell and everything to sell, that are raising our children today." - Amy Goodman
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=

We don't always have to agree, but we need to work together.
These are my thoughts for now, I am interested to hear yours.
I'm more... I dunno... I guess I'd say "rational" but that doesn't mean shit, since it's me saying it. I do know I don't like to jump to conclusions, and I don't see curtains everywhere. I've looked, but my mind just doesn't work that way. I'm not cut out for noticing things people need to know, no matter how hard I've tried to do so.

I didn't know an excess of milk gave you higher risk of osteoporosis though. I mean, it makes sense, most minerals, like calcium, are bad when they build up. I've just never really thought of it like that.

Of course, physical inactivity also causes it, so there's also that thing a lot of us (just people in general, myself included occasionally) do when we think we're doing something else healthy and that exempts us from exercise.


I do think that we always have a choice, so when it seems we don't it's a good idea to do some research. But that's the closest I come to a curtain, and I only think of it because I realize companies can be greedy and naturally want more for themselves than everyone else. They evolved the same way organisms did, by being the baddest around.
(01-24-2013, 01:56 PM)Card Wrote: [ -> ]I'm more... I dunno... I guess I'd say "rational" but that doesn't mean shit, since it's me saying it. I do know I don't like to jump to conclusions, and I don't see curtains everywhere. I've looked, but my mind just doesn't work that way. I'm not cut out for noticing things people need to know, no matter how hard I've tried to do so.

I didn't know an excess of milk gave you higher risk of osteoporosis though. I mean, it makes sense, most minerals, like calcium, are bad when they build up. I've just never really thought of it like that.

Of course, physical inactivity also causes it, so there's also that thing a lot of us (just people in general, myself included occasionally) do when we think we're doing something else healthy and that exempts us from exercise.


I do think that we always have a choice, so when it seems we don't it's a good idea to do some research. But that's the closest I come to a curtain, and I only think of it because I realize companies can be greedy and naturally want more for themselves than everyone else. They evolved the same way organisms did, by being the baddest around.

Yes, there is always more to the story. These are just my thoughts.
I can't see all the curtains either, but I keep looking.
Quote:If we don't ask the hard questions and fight for the truth, we might never realize they allow pus and blood in our milk and call it the "Somatic Cell count". Cows never see grass. They are in a modern concentration camp packed into tight spaces, pumped with hormones and gmo corn that they can't properly digest with pumps on their tits that give them infections. It is those infections and the use of the pumps that cause them to bleed and pus out, and that is why our milk is pasteurized and is no longer as nutritional as it used to be. Pasteurization kills bacteria, it doesn't get rid of the pus. These cows are milked for what they are worth, literally, and their calves are ripped away - they never get to taste a drop of their mothers milk because it would take away from the money made by those of us innocently drinking our egg nog at Christmas time. Many of us are as ignorant to what is happening in our own "back yards" as the masses of people who didn't know about the holocaust while it was happening.

I grew up on a dairy farm. This is one of the bigger loads of bullshit I've heard, sorry. Our cattle grazed in open pastures and their diets were supplemented with lucerne and hay. Any cow with an infection was milked separately (for her own comfort and to ensure that her supply didn't dry up). Calves are separated from their mothers within a day, this is true. However, they are still fed milk, especially the first milk (which contains colostrum). As children, it was our job to hand feed the calves from baby's bottles. They were well loved, I assure you. The calf paddock was one of my favourite places. A large number of bobby calves were taken for slaughter, but this is no different to other meat industries and on our farm and the farms of everyone else I knew, they were never mistreated. Every care was taken to ensure that animals were always treated humanely and with as much kindness as possible.

Unfortunately, deregulation of the dairy industry means that consumers rejoice at the supermarket, but the price of milk is less than the cost of production. To make farming profitable, farmers have had to turn to other supplementary products but again, none I know have cut costs by reducing the care they give to their stock. It may be that Australia is different to other countries but I doubt it. Most people who live on the land love both the land and the livestock they work with. Generalisations by "animal rights" organisations never see the whole picture.

As for osteoporosis, milk can't solve everything. Sitting on your fat arse doing nothing is not conducive to strong bones. Drinking excessive amounts of processed coffee leaches calcium from the body. Staying indoors and not getting enough vitamin D from sunlight decreases bone mass. Smoking. Certain medications. Crash dieting. Bloody hell, you're putting a lot of pressure on a cow to save your skeleton!
Quote:Why do the countries who eat the most meat and dairy have the highest rates of osteoporosis when the claim is "Milk builds strong bones and teeth" ?? Why doesn't everyone know this information? Why are there so many conflicting facts?

it couldn't be because people don't get treated as well in third world countries could it, and that because of it, osteoporosis goes unregistered by the WHO? why is it when you see many in third world countries (including kids) they all look the have broken backs? why is it that doctors tell patients after heart surgery, to drink lots of milk? okay bill you've had surgery, now drink lots of milk cos it will kill you Wink

however cows are treated they get regular inspections and an infected cow is quarantined, it has to be this way as it risks losing the farmers livelihoods if they aren't, it's also the law.

since 1958 a lot of strict rules and regs have been enacted concerning dairy and agriculture,
(01-24-2013, 03:01 PM)Leanne Wrote: [ -> ]
Quote:If we don't ask the hard questions and fight for the truth, we might never realize they allow pus and blood in our milk and call it the "Somatic Cell count". Cows never see grass. They are in a modern concentration camp packed into tight spaces, pumped with hormones and gmo corn that they can't properly digest with pumps on their tits that give them infections. It is those infections and the use of the pumps that cause them to bleed and pus out, and that is why our milk is pasteurized and is no longer as nutritional as it used to be. Pasteurization kills bacteria, it doesn't get rid of the pus. These cows are milked for what they are worth, literally, and their calves are ripped away - they never get to taste a drop of their mothers milk because it would take away from the money made by those of us innocently drinking our egg nog at Christmas time. Many of us are as ignorant to what is happening in our own "back yards" as the masses of people who didn't know about the holocaust while it was happening.

I grew up on a dairy farm. This is one of the bigger loads of bullshit I've heard, sorry. Our cattle grazed in open pastures and their diets were supplemented with lucerne and hay. Any cow with an infection was milked separately (for her own comfort and to ensure that her supply didn't dry up). Calves are separated from their mothers within a day, this is true. However, they are still fed milk, especially the first milk (which contains colostrum). As children, it was our job to hand feed the calves from baby's bottles. They were well loved, I assure you. The calf paddock was one of my favourite places. A large number of bobby calves were taken for slaughter, but this is no different to other meat industries and on our farm and the farms of everyone else I knew, they were never mistreated. Every care was taken to ensure that animals were always treated humanely and with as much kindness as possible.

Unfortunately, deregulation of the dairy industry means that consumers rejoice at the supermarket, but the price of milk is less than the cost of production. To make farming profitable, farmers have had to turn to other supplementary products but again, none I know have cut costs by reducing the care they give to their stock. It may be that Australia is different to other countries but I doubt it. Most people who live on the land love both the land and the livestock they work with. Generalisations by "animal rights" organisations never see the whole picture.

As for osteoporosis, milk can't solve everything. Sitting on your fat arse doing nothing is not conducive to strong bones. Drinking excessive amounts of processed coffee leaches calcium from the body. Staying indoors and not getting enough vitamin D from sunlight decreases bone mass. Smoking. Certain medications. Crash dieting. Bloody hell, you're putting a lot of pressure on a cow to save your skeleton!

Thank you for enlightening me. I still take issue with the information I have heard and seen, but I respect your reply and your personal experience. I can't know for certain if your experience is the case for agribusiness as a whole as I have seen and heard other experiences and stories of how the business has changed over the years with increase in demand. I recognize that not every farm treats their animals inhumanely, which is why I try to buy local and do the research I can. Yes, animal rights activists can be biased, being emotionally invested in these animals can prevent them from seeing the full picture.

No, milk can't solve everything when it comes to osteoporosis and it is also not necessarily the primary cause - there are many contributing factors. The information is something to consider and research, a different view on milk. What I have shared is an example of information that affects me deeply, if it absolutely true in every case I cannot be absolutely certain which is one of the reasons I wrote, "why are there so many conflicting facts?" I'd rather be safe than sorry until I can get a full picture of what is happening.

I got emotional while writing, I am sorry if I offended you
They aren't conflicting "facts", they're different perspectives privileging their own ideologies. No system is perfect but if you have a resistant position, you will look only for flaws. Texts produced by people strongly in favour or strongly opposed to anything will never be objective (no text is absolutely objective but bias is much more when there's a high number of emotive, persuasive devices in use).

For example, a couple of years ago Pink was very vocally opposed to the practice of "mulesing" in Australian sheep. This is a surgical procedure that removes the wool-bearing skin from the behind of a sheep. To the ignorant, particularly those in foreign countries, it can appear cruel. Pink and her PETA friends launched a campaign urging people not to buy Australian wool products and it was quite damaging to the industry. She has since admitted, to her credit, that she was misinformed and should have researched before opening her mouth. Mulesing is recognised as best practice to protect sheep against flystrike, which is where flies lay their eggs close to the sheep's anus and when the maggots hatch, they eat into the flesh causing extreme agony, infection and often death. While it really should be done under anaesthesia and with pain relief, it isn't always -- but even still, a bit of pain as a once-off has got to be better than being devoured alive from the arse inwards.

The lesson is really just to accept that there is always more than one side to every story, and to keep your mind open to new possibilities.
(01-24-2013, 04:17 PM)Leanne Wrote: [ -> ]The lesson is really just to accept that there is always more than one side to every story, and to keep your mind open to new possibilities.

That is the message I was trying to get across in my writing.
I should have considered while I was writing that the information I have found on agribusiness in the states is not the case everywhere in the world or on every farm - in my mind while I was writing I forgot that members of this site come from different places. I feel we are fed a lot of contradictory information in the society I live in. I can't speak for Australia. Nor can I speak for this continent, for now I speak out of my own experience in this culture. My views on the subject are of the nature to change with new and hopefully true information.
That is a great example. That story and yours is something to learn from.
At least you have the brain power to recognise "contradictory information" (or increasingly often, "propaganda") -- the real tragedy is that people aren't encouraged to question what they read, see and hear. If they were, governments and corporations around the world would be screwed Big Grin
Hmmmmm.......Hmmmmm......... As entrancing as is the picture of Leanne's pastoral idyll, it seems that even in the wide open spaces, it is not always so. Wink

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDo5c-ksmRs
(01-23-2013, 04:27 PM)Yelleryella123 Wrote: [ -> ]we are so incredibly ridiculously fortunate in so many ways and I admittedly take it for granted worrying about what people think or what shirt to wear, what movie to watch or what to do on the weekend .......... none of those things are as important as they sometimes seem

We are the fortunate ones, so what can we do for the others?
What do I take for granted (off the top of my head):

1) Clean water from a tap
2) Hot water
3) Refrigeration
4) The ability to secure my property
5) Easy long distance communication
6) Abundance of food
7) The ability to waste time thinking about the mundane--not worried about mere survival or violence.
8. Aspirin
9. Antibiotics
10. Trash removal

Those are ten obvious ones.

What do we do? The problems are so large. For me, it comes down to quietly help people and vote according to what you value.
(01-29-2013, 03:37 AM)abu nuwas Wrote: [ -> ]Hmmmmm.......Hmmmmm......... As entrancing as is the picture of Leanne's pastoral idyll, it seems that even in the wide open spaces, it is not always so. Wink

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDo5c-ksmRs

Oh, yeah. Right. Allow me to explain that part.

Welcome to America, we're all bloody assholes.


Now, that's a bit sarcastic, but it kinda is the truth. We put a lot more emphasis on business and the well-being of American citizens than we do on animals or people in other countries. It's a form of the isolationism America is so famous for.

I mean, while America has many people who want to do things, we just have different ways of thinking. In America, the general public loves capitalism, and while it's great that the majority supports the nation's economic system... Capitalism definitely promotes self-interest, which leads to those dairy farms.


But, we're also very paranoid about our health, for the same self-interested reasons. So we have numerous laws that prevent infectious disease from spreading through livestock. We'd all be pretty damn dead otherwise, really.

So, in first-world countries, at least, we don't have to worry about disease. There's more disease in third-world countries that don't have as much access to milk, or keep their livestock under close surveillance.



I will remind you, though, we have those idyllic farms here in America too. I live on the same road as a few. I can hear the cows lowing on lazy summer afternoons. It's a nice sound.

rowens

I really don't take anything for granted. To get to the point... I wouldn't be surprised if a hole opened up and I fell in it, every time I walked outside. When I have faith, it's not that something is, but that something isn't. I have to have a strong faith that a hole won't open up, and so on.

I'm not Descartes. I don't like Descartes. I doubt his method of doubt. I doubt everything.

But I'm not a nihilist. And though I have faith that some things don't exist, I believe in them anyway. And that's not bad faith. It's just practical. And I'm not a very practical person.

Many people don't want help, they just want the prestige of being in need. And the opportunity to complain, or, on the other hand, to be helpers.

If a perfect human being constructed a perfect philosophy, I believe that he would muddle it up with flaws out of jealousy for his own perfection, or destruction, before anyone else had the chance to do it for him. And I think that's very humane. Faith always needs peril. And a selfless person is useless. A truly selfless person is like Christ without God. And nobody believes in someone like that, because it's not very interesting.
everything of substance has to be paid for when you think about it. so for me, paying is something i take for granted.
after that, the human condition, crime, charity, hope, greed, hate, loneliness, happiness, pain, love, i take for granted that most of us have or commit all of them.

i read todd's list and would agree to most of it were i in the uk.
here in the Philippines, we buy drinking water in 5 gall containers, power outages are common so there goes the aircon and hot water and long dist communication. while food is abundant there's a lot of stuff you can't buy. while i do take aspirins for granted, many people here can't afford one. the majority of people here can't afford most of what's on the list. living here i've grown to take poverty for granted.
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