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without a need for a permit or training.
source;

personally if they allow people to carry any gun concealed or not i think they should have a mandatory test in the use and care of said firearm.

it wouldn't take long to teach someone how to shoot properly and how to dismantle and put back together a gun in order that it fires correctly should the need arise.

the person can also be taught the correct procedure of using the weapon at home or in a close body situation. often drawing and firing a concealed weapon can get you shot if you're in the wrong situation. without training you're also liable to shoot yourself. when i've been on the ranges the most common thing i've seen is keeping the skin between thumb and forefinger over the trigger of a an automatic handgun lol. (i did it myself the first time so i know)
allowing people to carry guns?well maybe a good measure for population control.how ludicrous

Benny2guns

I fully support this bill and support the right to bare arms. This is written into their constitution and was put there to ensure they have the means to defend against tyranny and any attempt to strip them of their constitution.
People can cry and go on about it all they want to but the fact is that without that right they will in fact have no means to protect the republic without it. American's are getting smart to what is happenning and they are going to try to put a stop to it. We are going to see more states in the union doing the same thing.
The winds of change are beginning to blow.
yeah,let's see what happens to you when you gun down a policeman.i'm sorry officer but i thought you were threatening my civil rights.
ofcourse i agree to you that we need a defence against our own governments[and let nobody tell me you can do that through the ballot box]but to do that by giving everybody guns is ludicrous,people just start shooting eachother,which they do already

Benny2guns

(04-17-2010, 02:56 PM)srijantje Wrote: [ -> ]yeah,let's see what happens to you when you gun down a policeman.i'm sorry officer but i thought you were threatening my civil rights.
ofcourse i agree to you that we need a defence against our own governments[and let nobody tell me you can do that through the ballot box]but to do that by giving everybody guns is ludicrous,people just start shooting eachother,which they do already

They are not giving them anything SJ. It is there right as US citizens to have a weapon and carry one. They have always had this right. It is one of the reasons they have freedom as they know it. The powers that be have been tring to remove this right for a long time. They need to disarm the population to stop any resistance to the dismantiling of the republic. I stand behind their right to bare arms at all costs.
the republic has been dismantled already despite the right to carry arms,homeland security etc,we don't dis agree on that one,there's just too many innocent people getting killed with all those weapons around

Benny2guns

(04-17-2010, 03:17 PM)srijantje Wrote: [ -> ]the republic has been dismantled already despite the right to carry arms,homeland security etc,we don't dis agree on that one,there's just too many innocent people getting killed with all those weapons around

Well no it has not SJ and that is the point of the states re-ratifying their right to bare arms. They intend to put a stop to it. People will die yes...from time to time blood must be spilled to protect the freedom of the people and stop the evil from taking control. Guns scare everyone and they in the wrong hands kill innocents. War kills millions of innocent people and this is done by our governments wishes. We need never think that this will stop because the government has all the weapons and we have none. What that does is leave us at their mercy...of which they indeed have none.
There is going to be a civil war I think in the near future, very near future in the USA.
i think my point was missed.

i'm not saying that guns should or shouldn't be allowed.

i'm asking that if concealed hand guns are allowed on the person, wouldn't it be prudent for said person to have some kind of mandatory lessons to make sure the rest of the populace is safe from some stupid mishap?

for example, before they can buy a gun the have learn how to use it.
i am struggling to understand the lack of need for a permit as though.
if just anyone can walk in and buy one it will certainly bring the price if a deserialized snub-nose down for any gang member who wants one.

Benny2guns

I am fairly sure that their is a check done but not 100% sure. Yes some sort of training should be required or at least suggested. I will say this much tho, firing a weapon is no big deal. You load, set the safety free if there is one, aim and fire. At close range you need not be an expert to hit what you point at. The question of gang members or criminals being able to get easy access to them is in fact a mute point. They already have them. They will still not be purchasing them at the local gun shop. These are the people that always have access to weapons no mater what the law is. What gun control does is remove the right of the majority of law abiding people from having a weapon there by reducing the armed response possibility to standing up against tyranny. TMO
is there more state tyranny in europe where it's hard to get guns than in the usa where everybody seems to have them?
(04-18-2010, 07:44 AM)Benny2guns Wrote: [ -> ]I am fairly sure that their is a check done but not 100% sure. Yes some sort of training should be required or at least suggested. I will say this much tho, firing a weapon is no big deal. You load, set the safety free if there is one, aim and fire. At close range you need not be an expert to hit what you point at. The question of gang members or criminals being able to get easy access to them is in fact a mute point. They already have them. They will still not be purchasing them at the local gun shop. These are the people that always have access to weapons no mater what the law is. What gun control does is remove the right of the majority of law abiding people from having a weapon there by reducing the armed response possibility to standing up against tyranny. TMO
heres a snippet from the source;

PHOENIX – Favoring the constitutional right to bear arms over others' concerns about gun safety, Gov. Jan Brewer on Friday signed into law a bill making Arizona the third state allowing people to carry a concealed weapon without requiring a permit.


if you don't need a permit, how hard would it be to just lie in the shop with a bit of false id.

and i've seen people who are new to guns take an astounding time to fire the thing. and miss a target ten foot away from them. ( (a target the size of a human being lmao) many of them like to close their eyes when the gun goes bang. most know what recoil is but don't expect it.
i know a guy who tried to commit suicide and just blew his jaw off. for a first time user it's not as easy as it seems to simply point and fire with some success at something ten feet away. as the distance grows so does the inaccuracy. after ten feet bystanders best watch their asses when a newb starts letting off.
never mind,just buy an automatic weapon and start spraying,no training needed
(04-18-2010, 11:31 AM)srijantje Wrote: [ -> ]never mind,just buy an automatic weapon and start spraying,no training needed
lol.

that would be fun. two dead kids i granny a mother and a traffic cop. no dead baddies. even an automatic, you fire off at most 13 rounds and hit nothing unless you're lucky. (extra extended mags not included)

personally if i was a robber in arizona, i'd much sooner kill the person then rob them as opposed to sticking them up. who knows i may even get myself a free concealed weapon lol.

Benny2guns

There is a special permit in alot of places around the world that a person has to have in order to cary a weapon concealed or not. This permit is ( as a general rule ) reserved for government employees.
I personally have never seen anyone close their eyes when firing a weapon and if I did would very quickly disarm them until they either got some training or gave up their dreams of having one,lol.
I think we need to remember that this is a country that rose and was created by people that wanted away from the tyranny of British rule. They were everyday people with guns to start with for the most part. They used guns to acomplish this and wrote it into their constitution that they had the right to bare and use them to protect the Republic that they had fought and died to create and that no man could ever take these rights away from any individual person. Thats what the republic is...it gives every individual person a god given set of rights so to speak that no vote of a majority can take away. The USA is not a democracy, thats propagada, it is a republic and there is a very large differance.
well yanks may be different than brits but on the ranges you could spot the people who hadn't fired a gun before.

and i don't think it has anything to do with us and them or what kind of country it is or was.

i'm specifically on about, people who go out and get a gun for the first time without the need for a permit and who've never ever fired a gun in their lives. or are you saying all yanks have a fired a gun?

if you saying people automatically know how to handle an automatic hand gun or heavy caliber revolver despite never having fired one. then i won't argue.

i used to almost live on the ranges and i've seen people that scared when they pull the trigger they drop the weapon. i've seen em turn round with a loaded weapon and exclaim wow, that was fuckin awesome, meanwhile the guns pointing at someones crutch.

Benny2guns

I agree with you Bill. I have no Idea about how many yanks actually have weapons. I know automatic weapons are a different ball of wax. I don't believe all yanks have fired a gun but I might be wrong.
Someone started this thread useing the gun law in a state of the union as a reason for asking a question tho so I felt it only fair if I not only gave my answer but my own opinion on why they are doing it as well.
As far as people haveing a sence of how to use a weapon, any weapon, before haveing ever had one in their possession I believe that would depend on how they were raised.
As an example, I was raised with weapons. They were always around.
I never had any special training, never took a course, but I can handle them and did so from first contact. I don't go to ranges. I don't know anyone that does. We do all of our shooting in the bush.
(04-18-2010, 11:58 PM)Benny2guns Wrote: [ -> ]I agree with you Bill. I have no Idea about how many yanks actually have weapons. I know automatic weapons are a different ball of wax. I don't believe all yanks have fired a gun but I might be wrong.
Someone started this thread useing the gun law in a state of the union as a reason for asking a question tho so I felt it only fair if I not only gave my answer but my own opinion on why they are doing it as well.
As far as people haveing a sence of how to use a weapon, any weapon, before haveing ever had one in their possession I believe that would depend on how they were raised.
As an example, I was raised with weapons. They were always around.
I never had any special training, never took a course, but I can handle them and did so from first contact. I don't go to ranges. I don't know anyone that does. We do all of our shooting in the bush.
i started the thread. and as far as it goes, it's their state, they can do as they wish lol.

but you have experience. (and you don't live in arizona )
thing is how does anyone whose selling a gun know if the person they're selling it too has any experience? (unless they know them personally)

i know i could drive at the age of 12. i couldn't get a license untill i was 17 and even then i couldn't get a license until i had past a test.

i think the whats wrong with this picture part of what vf says about; if every carried a concealed weapon is this:
if i know how to use a weapon and hold you up. you will not get a shot of at me, should you try i'd simply shoot you. i suspect if everyone carried a concealed gun many criminals would shoot first and ask for your wallet when you were dead.

theres also this.
while many law abiding citizens haven't fired a weapon, many american criminals and gang members have. it's the main reason i say everyone who buy a gun should be able to show their competent with one, or take a lesson or two to make them competent.

bang, cap in the back of the head. mmm that's a nice concealed weapon thank you very much.

Benny2guns

Thats all well and good and makes sense. Problem is as I see it is this.
They have the right at birth, it was given as a means to protect the republic from all enemies foreign and domestic. It can not be taken away or changed, if it is tried they have the right to spill blood to protect it that one can not be changed either. The men that wrote the constitution were some of the most clever people that lived.
There is no arguement that I have heard that will convince me that removing any of or changeing any of them is good for the republic or the freedom for which it stands.
No I don't live there but I have family that does.
Robbers and criminals be damned, you can not scare people into giving up their rights and freedoms. It may blind side them for a short bit but in the end you will not get away with it.
(04-19-2010, 12:30 PM)Benny2guns Wrote: [ -> ]Thats all well and good and makes sense. Problem is as I see it is this.
They have the right at birth, it was given as a means to protect the republic from all enemies foreign and domestic. It can not be taken away or changed, if it is tried they have the right to spill blood to protect it that one can not be changed either. The men that wrote the constitution were some of the most clever people that lived.
There is no arguement that I have heard that will convince me that removing any of or changeing any of them is good for the republic or the freedom for which it stands.
No I don't live there but I have family that does.
Robbers and criminals be damned, you can not scare people into giving up their rights and freedoms. It may blind side them for a short bit but in the end you will not get away with it.
whose on about making them give up any rights.

basically if i follow the credo you're using here, i eat meat i can eat my neighbor. i learnt to eat meat at 10 months so i'll eat your ass.

i have the right of free speech i can call anyone i know whose black a blacky.

if i have the right to bear arms does that mean i can drive a tank down main street and get away with it?


you talk of rights.
how come arizona is only the third state to allow the buying and carrying of a concealed weapon without a permit ?

why does anyone need a permit if its a right?

i just saying. let anyone who wants a guns have one but make sure they can use it properly first.

if not lets arm all the down syndrome adult and any other do lally who thinks mmm it would be cool to have a gun.

lets arm those autistic people who like to slap themselves around the head or who wear mittens for protection.

lets arm all the criminals as they get released from the pen.
it would be silly to do all those things wouldn't it, even if it does abuse their right to carry arms.

it's no sillier than giving a 38. to some dizzy blonde whose liable to blow her tits off while she's putting on her make up.

or some silly fucker whose liabe to leave it laying around where his kids are because he's a fuckin moron.

so because of the above. i think everyone should have at least a minimal training in the use of hand guns.

my last post on the topic.

just a thought benny:

if they have a right at birth, why aren't ten year olds allowed to carry concealed weapons ?
or legally own a hand gun?

Benny2guns

(04-19-2010, 04:21 PM)billy Wrote: [ -> ]
(04-19-2010, 12:30 PM)Benny2guns Wrote: [ -> ]Thats all well and good and makes sense. Problem is as I see it is this.
They have the right at birth, it was given as a means to protect the republic from all enemies foreign and domestic. It can not be taken away or changed, if it is tried they have the right to spill blood to protect it that one can not be changed either. The men that wrote the constitution were some of the most clever people that lived.
There is no arguement that I have heard that will convince me that removing any of or changeing any of them is good for the republic or the freedom for which it stands.
No I don't live there but I have family that does.
Robbers and criminals be damned, you can not scare people into giving up their rights and freedoms. It may blind side them for a short bit but in the end you will not get away with it.

whose on about making them give up any rights.

basically if i follow the credo you're using here, i eat meat i can eat my neighbor. i learnt to eat meat at 10 months so i'll eat your ass.

i have the right of free speech i can call anyone i know whose black a blacky.

if i have the right to bear arms does that mean i can drive a tank down main street and get away with it?


you talk of rights.
how come arizona is only the third state to allow the buying and carrying of a concealed weapon without a permit ?

why does anyone need a permit if its a right?

i just saying. let anyone who wants a guns have one but make sure they can use it properly first.

if not lets arm all the down syndrome adult and any other do lally who thinks mmm it would be cool to have a gun.

lets arm those autistic people who like to slap themselves around the head or who wear mittens for protection.

lets arm all the criminals as they get released from the pen.
it would be silly to do all those things wouldn't it, even if it does abuse their right to carry arms.

it's no sillier than giving a 38. to some dizzy blonde whose liable to blow her tits off while she's putting on her make up.

or some silly fucker whose liabe to leave it laying around where his kids are because he's a fuckin moron.

so because of the above. i think everyone should have at least a minimal training in the use of hand guns.

my last post on the topic.

just a thought benny:

if they have a right at birth, why aren't ten year olds allowed to carry concealed weapons ?
or legally own a hand gun?

The permit is to collect money just as all permits are nothing more. As for your arguements they are way out there just as most arguments for gun controll are.
The people you speak of would have to be armed by someone else as they would never think to get one themselves.
A drivers license is a privilage not a right.
Owning a gun is a right not a privilage.
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