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does it exist?
how would it work?

will give my ideas after breakfast.
but i don't think it works how we would expect it to.

Benny2guns

We are all time travelers. To travel back in time I think may be possible from our perspective depending on your belief system. I think it has been theorized that to travel backwards in time would require travel at the speed of light which at present is said to be impossible because all things turn to energy at that speed. If it becomes somehow possible to control this conversion and reverse it at will then we will indeed be able to do it. Anything that the human mind can think of can in my opinion be accomplished.
To travel forward in time would imply that everything we experience from second to second is but a moment in past time that has already occurred and continues to exist. Liken to some sort of digital image in a perpetual infinite repeating loop of infinite layers of existence. This would allow for scan,search and recall in both directions much like a computer does in virtual reality. However this would only be possible if the code for the universe and the question of the meaning of life were to be cracked so to speak and would imply that we are no more than terminals or computer generated avatars that host the actions of a higher life form enjoying it's creation.
Not so far out there if you think about it and again anything that the human mind can think of it can in our so called reality create.

altezon

Cool subject. Firstly, I don't think time travel has anything to do with speed -- that's baloney science invented by the creators of Superman, I think. The real theory is not that matter becomes energy at lightspeed. It's that any object having mass, such as an electron, becomes infinitely massive as it approaches lightspeed and requires infinite energy input to continue accelerating. Can't do it, in other words. But it's just a theory. Anyway, chasing light rays is just going to bring you an image, right? not something you can interact with.

Loops and branches in the timeline are a convenient way to imagine travel by whatever means. Once you leave the normal timeflow you create a branch that will never permit you to return. Travel again and you're on a branch of a branch, and so forth.
the internet is a time traveller

altezon

Ya, you want to enter the past or just look at it? The sun is 8 light-minutes away, so we look into the past all the time without any special devices. The future is another matter.
i think as altezon does. the multiple time line theory but a slightly different.

if we travel in time we go to a new time line. when we go back we go back to a new time. after that we go back and forth along the two time lines that allow time travel.
A because in the first time people come to it from the past and
B in the second time line people travel from the future.
we actually only need three time lines.
this one to start from. one go back in and one to go forward from.

i say the other two because we know of no one going forward from here or coming back from anywhere else.

i also think if it is going to work it would have to be along the theory of spacial displacement. where a space from one place is swapped with the space of another.

Benny2guns

(03-06-2010, 07:44 AM)billy Wrote: [ -> ]i think as altezon does. the multiple time line theory but a slightly different.

if we travel in time we go to a new time line. when we go back we go back to a new time. after that we go back and forth along the two time lines that allow time travel.
A because in the first time people come to it from the past and
B in the second time line people travel from the future.
we actually only need three time lines.
this one to start from. one go back in and one to go forward from.

i say the other two because we know of no one going forward from here or coming back from anywhere else.

So that would imply that we do indeed know of someone going back to a previous line from this line. Do we?
(03-06-2010, 07:47 AM)Benny2guns Wrote: [ -> ]
(03-06-2010, 07:44 AM)billy Wrote: [ -> ]i think as altezon does. the multiple time line theory but a slightly different.

if we travel in time we go to a new time line. when we go back we go back to a new time. after that we go back and forth along the two time lines that allow time travel.
A because in the first time people come to it from the past and
B in the second time line people travel from the future.
we actually only need three time lines.
this one to start from. one go back in and one to go forward from.

i say the other two because we know of no one going forward from here or coming back from anywhere else.
So that would imply that we do indeed know of someone going back to a previous line from this line. Do we?
nope. those who leave here go to one time line those who leave there go to another time line. both which are timelines where t/travel is possible.

when someone leaves here, they possibly cease existing to us.

Benny2guns

(03-06-2010, 07:56 AM)billy Wrote: [ -> ]
(03-06-2010, 07:47 AM)Benny2guns Wrote: [ -> ]
(03-06-2010, 07:44 AM)billy Wrote: [ -> ]i think as altezon does. the multiple time line theory but a slightly different.

if we travel in time we go to a new time line. when we go back we go back to a new time. after that we go back and forth along the two time lines that allow time travel.
A because in the first time people come to it from the past and
B in the second time line people travel from the future.
we actually only need three time lines.
this one to start from. one go back in and one to go forward from.

i say the other two because we know of no one going forward from here or coming back from anywhere else.

So that would imply that we do indeed know of someone going back to a previous line from this line. Do we?

nope. those who leave here go to one time line those who leave there go to another time line. both which are timelines where t/travel is possible.

when someone leaves here, they possibly cease existing to us.
It's possible but my idea, not mine really, lol, is more plausible to my mind. I really believe we will find there is truth in one version or another of it. Smile
the funny thing with time travel theory is anythings possible.

maybe our time line doesn't become known to it for another 100 or 1000 years. maybe it's the only time line that never has time travel.

altezon

(03-06-2010, 07:44 AM)billy Wrote: [ -> ]i also think if it is going to work it would have to be along the theory of spacial displacement. where a space from one place is swapped with the space of another.


What about potential differences in momentum ?

Benny2guns

(03-06-2010, 08:57 AM)altezon Wrote: [ -> ]
(03-06-2010, 07:44 AM)billy Wrote: [ -> ]i also think if it is going to work it would have to be along the theory of spacial displacement. where a space from one place is swapped with the space of another.


What about potential differences in momentum ?

Elaborate please.
(03-06-2010, 08:57 AM)altezon Wrote: [ -> ]
(03-06-2010, 07:44 AM)billy Wrote: [ -> ]i also think if it is going to work it would have to be along the theory of spacial displacement. where a space from one place is swapped with the space of another.


What about potential differences in momentum ?
i don't think that would matter so much because it would be relative to where you start or end up.

imagine all the different time lines. looked at from any angle (theoretically speaking) it would only look like there was one. in fact there could be an infinite number occupying the same space.

energy and mass in the universe is a constant. maybe it's same with time.
we're all on the same time,the trick is to step outside the timeline,wait ,step back in and you're in every bodys future and in your own past.so there you go

altezon

(03-06-2010, 07:44 AM)billy Wrote: [ -> ]i also think if it is going to work it would have to be along the theory of spacial displacement. where a space from one place is swapped with the space of another.

(03-06-2010, 08:57 AM)altezon Wrote: [ -> ]What about potential differences in momentum ?

(03-06-2010, 09:01 AM)Benny2guns Wrote: [ -> ]Elaborate please.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but consider the complicated motion of any point on earth at any given time. It's rotating with the planet, which would give it an angular velocity of anywhere from zero to 1000 mph, depending on the latitude. Imagine this point tracing out the circles of a spinning planet as earth moves along its orbit about the sun at an average velocity of 66 thousand mph. The earth's axis is tilted, so the circles are weaving in and out of the orbital plane like a corkscrew. It's an elliptical orbit, so the earth will be moving faster or slower depending on what month of the year it is, and it will also be constantly changing direction as it "falls" toward the sun. So the speed and direction of the departing time traveler will be varying a lot with the latitude, time of day, and month of of the year. Likewise, the speed and direction of the spacetime point he's going to will depend on the same factors.

If we're talking about short hops of a year or so, then maybe we can disregard everthing but the planetary motions relative to the sun. But we'd still have potentially enormous differences in momentum between objects occupying different placetimes. The time traveler could peacefully depart while at rest with respect to his original surroundings and arrive moving at several hundred miles an hour relative to his new surroundings. This could be inconvenient if something were in his way. Tongue

For longer trips the problem is perhaps much worse because the larger picture becomes significant. Earth is precessing like a wobbling top while orbiting the sun. The sun is bobbing up and down with respect to the galactic plane (taking its collection of planets with it) while also orbiting the galactic center. Actually, our whole solar system is tilted with respect to the galactic plane, which is why the Milky Way crosses the night sky athwart the ecliptic like a windshield wiper. So the earth's orbit about the sun is a corkscrew path along the direction of the sun's galactic orbit. Our galaxy is moving toward the Andromeda galaxy at 300 km/sec., while the Local Group to which they both belong has its own speed and direction in the cosmos. [Image: star.gif]
yeah i agree but you're on about actual traveling.

i'm on about slipping through the fabric of time itself. imagine a million earths, a billion billion billion billion earths all occupying the same space, all travelly at the same velocity all of an equal mass. now stick a pin into the earth. it will always be the exact same spot every time. we wouldn't be traveling in a linear line through time but stepping sideways. onto an exact same earth that's in a different time frame.
that is what is probably happening already,the trick is to notice it,you need a different frame of mind
[please comment if this makes any sense]

altezon

(03-06-2010, 02:34 PM)billy Wrote: [ -> ]yeah i agree but you're on about actual traveling.

i'm on about slipping through the fabric of time itself. imagine a million earths, a billion billion billion billion earths all occupying the same space, all travelly at the same velocity all of an equal mass. now stick a pin into the earth. it will always be the exact same spot every time. we wouldn't be traveling in a linear line through time but stepping sideways. onto an exact same earth that's in a different time frame.

OK, but the earth isn't stationary. So the earth a month in the future is doing something different, because it's in a different place. In other words, if you want to visit the earth in a different time, you have to go to where the earth will be at that time. Let's say you're in London, January 2010, in the dead of winter, and you want to jump ahead to London, July 2010. At the new time coordinates, the earth will be at the other extreme of its orbit with the northern hemisphere tilted toward the sun instead of the southern hemisphere. It's inescapable.

Let's try a different example. A train shuttles back and forth between Washington DC and New York on a regular schedule, so that it's always leaving DC at 8am and arriving in New York at 2pm. You're in DC at 8am while the train is there and want to time travel 4 hours into the future, same location. When you debark from your time travel device at noon, the train will no longer be there. If you're on the train when you do your time travel, when you debark at noon you'll no longer be in DC.
imagine all the earths. are a millisecond apart time wise. yet they're all position in exactly the same way.

you wouldn't actually be traveling through time as such. your basically going up or down in an elevator and getting off a different floor.

Benny2guns

(03-06-2010, 03:34 PM)altezon Wrote: [ -> ]
(03-06-2010, 02:34 PM)billy Wrote: [ -> ]yeah i agree but you're on about actual traveling.

i'm on about slipping through the fabric of time itself. imagine a million earths, a billion billion billion billion earths all occupying the same space, all travelly at the same velocity all of an equal mass. now stick a pin into the earth. it will always be the exact same spot every time. we wouldn't be traveling in a linear line through time but stepping sideways. onto an exact same earth that's in a different time frame.

OK, but the earth isn't stationary. So the earth a month in the future is doing something different, because it's in a different place. In other words, if you want to visit the earth in a different time, you have to go to where the earth will be at that time. Let's say you're in London, January 2010, in the dead of winter, and you want to jump ahead to London, July 2010. At the new time coordinates, the earth will be at the other extreme of its orbit with the northern hemisphere tilted toward the sun instead of the southern hemisphere. It's inescapable.

Let's try a different example. A train shuttles back and forth between Washington DC and New York on a regular schedule, so that it's always leaving DC at 8am and arriving in New York at 2pm. You're in DC at 8am while the train is there and want to time travel 4 hours into the future, same location. When you debark from your time travel device at noon, the train will no longer be there. If you're on the train when you do your time travel, when you debark at noon you'll no longer be in DC.

Your right ofcourse unless this is all for lack of a better word (I'm not sure the word actually exsists yet) a virtual digital reality.
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