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seems smaller cars and hybrids will be flavour of the month at the detroit auto show. but is it enough. forget the planet warming stuff. concentrate on air quality at ground level from car emissions. personally i think they're moving way too slow. the sooner they get producing there things the cheaper they'll be come as sales and volumes increase. the healthier it will be to walk the streets.

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mrmod

There are some decent ones out. They aren't quicker than petrpl but then again neither were the first petrol cars.

I think it's good we're making them cos then we can develop and perfect them to suit our needs Smile.

Benny2guns

Electric transportation, great concept but not the best solution. The best solution was quashed like so many other attempts to make life better without petrolium as a fuel source. We could be useing water for fuel right now. The technology exsists and has been proven.
(01-12-2010, 06:00 AM)Benny2guns Wrote: [ -> ]Electric transportation, great concept but not the best solution. The best solution was quashed like so many other attempts to make life better without petrolium as a fuel source. We could be useing water for fuel right now. The technology exists and has been proven.
it would be good if it were so. not just for cars but in other applications. such as electricity generation. personally i don't believe it but i'm not saying i'm right.

i really do think electrical cars are the way to go for now. i also think we need to start using renewable energy more. that's the main thing we should be doing. even portable renewable energy.

mrmod

Even forgetting global warming, renewables are much muhc cheaper in the long run. No trasnportation of electricity - just wires! Smile
(01-12-2010, 08:53 AM)SidewaysDan Wrote: [ -> ]Even forgetting global warming, renewables are much muhc cheaper in the long run. No trasnportation of electricity - just wires! Smile
a small wind turbine could generate enough power to charge the car and run the house, not much wiring either. though some of the bigger ones are dear they could could do a larger community.

Benny2guns

There is no way to make a totally electric car feasible without some sort of fossil fuel produced power source. The oil monarchy wins again.
(01-12-2010, 09:30 AM)Benny2guns Wrote: [ -> ]There is no way to make a totally electric car feasible without some sort of fossil fuel produced power source. The oil monarchy wins again.
maybe not yet as far as production goes but it will happen.

as for charging. many farms in the midwest genrate there own power from wind turbines. i could see some of them setting up their own electric refill stations.

not sure what the renewable percentages are at the moment but even 10 percent is huge across a country like the usa. imagine when it rises to 80 % and it will.

just had a look and 7% of energy in 2006 was renewable. not coal oil or gas. add to that nuclear energy which was 8% and you already had 15% in 2006. not sure what it is now but it has to be higher.
i think within the next ten years we'll hit the 50% mark at least.

Benny2guns

Bill....have you looked at the prices? These thing's are not and will not be the succesor to the 100% internal combustion. The priceing puts them out of reach of your average joe. Lets face it, they are just another way to keep selling fossil fuel. Hydrogen is the way of the future. When all known hydrogen reserves are owned by the fossil fuel industry we will then have hydrogen powered transportation at a cost in line with our drinking water at that time in the future.
(01-12-2010, 09:56 AM)Benny2guns Wrote: [ -> ]Bill....have you looked at the prices? These thing's are not and will not be the succesor to the 100% internal combustion. The priceing puts them out of reach of your average joe. Lets face it, they are just another way to keep selling fossil fuel. Hydrogen is the way of the future. When all known hydrogen reserves are owned by the fossil fuel industry we will then have hydrogen powered transportation at a cost in line with our drinking water at that time in the future.
thats how it starts. they now have one thats gonna sell for 30000. a few years ago the cheapest was 100000. as they get more common and as demand grows along with innovation they'll get cheaper. and hydrogen could very well play a part in less fossil based cars. we can create hydrogen from the air. and from water.

Benny2guns

Have you seen that 30000 dollar death trap? I don't know about you but no way.

mrmod

(01-12-2010, 02:30 PM)billy Wrote: [ -> ]we can create hydrogen from the air. and from water.

That is true but the energy required to break the covalent bond in water is so great that is so much cheaper to just get hydrogen in oil mines in the sea where there are vast deposits. So benny is a bit right.Blush

(01-12-2010, 07:20 PM)Benny2guns Wrote: [ -> ]Have you seen that 30000 dollar death trap? I don't know about you but no way.

You don't have to drive right into. The marked is not yet geared for 100% electric. Atm hybrids are revolutionizing the market, you can get one of them for not that much. And i think from hybrids we will develop to full electric. Confusedleepy:
(01-13-2010, 03:01 AM)SidewaysDan Wrote: [ -> ]
(01-12-2010, 02:30 PM)billy Wrote: [ -> ]we can create hydrogen from the air. and from water.
That is true but the energy required to break the covalent bond in water is so great that is so much cheaper to just get hydrogen in oil mines in the sea where there are vast deposits. So benny is a bit right.Blush

(01-12-2010, 07:20 PM)Benny2guns Wrote: [ -> ]Have you seen that 30000 dollar death trap? I don't know about you but no way.
You don't have to drive right into. The marked is not yet geared for 100% electric. Atm hybrids are revolutionizing the market, you can get one of them for not that much. And i think from hybrids we will develop to full electric. Confusedleepy:
and thats what i'm saying; at the moment. if they that be had worked at finding a solution instead of building hummer and hybrids in order to keep the oil flowing we'd all be driving in an electric or water based fuel driven car. (it doesn't have to be hydrogen ) if we did more to generate power from renewable sources we wouldn't need hybrids or have a problem saying electric cars don't harm the environment in any way.

at present they're making hybrids....before the life of a new hybrid is over they'll be old technology. just an intermediate way of making more money from oil. we can have electric cars. we already have them in the space of a couple of years the price of them has dropped 50% sorry, but we have the hybrids because they want us to have hybrids. they want to make the transition from oil to battery or electric as slow as possible. id we put a ban on all new oil based engines i guarantee within a year factories would be popping up all over the place selling electric cars.

mrmod

But they're trying to keep the market flowing. If the oil indstry collapsed it wouldn't be just "great for the environment". Think about job loss.

The world is not yet ready for an electric car. You walk down to your nearest Station and they will sell you petrol! The cars don't run that well on electricity yet. :angel:

We are approaching a big breakthrough (like the railways in the past). We're just not there yet because they don't want us to. Simply because we're not ready Wink
(01-13-2010, 08:20 AM)SidewaysDan Wrote: [ -> ]But they're trying to keep the market flowing. If the oil indstry collapsed it wouldn't be just "great for the environment". Think about job loss.

The world is not yet ready for an electric car. You walk down to your nearest Station and they will sell you petrol! The cars don't run that well on electricity yet. :angel:

We are approaching a big breakthrough (like the railways in the past). We're just not there yet because they don't want us to. Simply because we're not ready Wink
so because the car companies say were not ready, we're not ready. mmm
and what about the tessler and the fact a new car at half the price will be made. what about electric cars that we have running and working already all over the world. powered from on street charging points, powered from household electricty.

as to the oil industry jobs. i take it electric cars won't need maintenance
we wont need new charging stations. how many people work in the american oil industry most of it is automated. you have more indirect jobs in the manufacturing of new equipment for electric hook ups etc. the oil industry itself won't die but it will shrink in output. how long would it take to put a charging station in every city, how hard to make a wire with a plug that you can use from a house outlet. (they already do it) we have not only the tech savvi but the product itself. the only thing stopping it from advancing is the fact the car companies tell us we're not ready. well watch out in the next two years. watch electric cars and infrastructure begin to boom. watch out in five years when 1 in five new cars will be electric and in ten when 7 in ten will be electric. all that happening is their holding back the inevitable..just like the movie industry and file sharing.

it's not fiction it's fact, we have electric cars in production all over the world. sadly the automotive industry like the movie industry want to stay in their wallowed out holes in order to get as much as they can from a dying industry. what they should be doing is re-gearing their plant and workforce.
how much cash is pent on cleaning the pollutants from factory fires and oil fueled boilers. okay you may lose tax on oil not sold but you'll gain it from the extra money being spent elsewhere. new jobs will be created. probably more than the direct oil industry has. car plants will probably have to higher extra workers as many will want to change, if not for the environment then for the prestige. but no.
as usual it;s the punter who gets screwed up the bottom and all because we have to wait till we're told the time is right. just tell them that from 2015 petrol driven cars and trucks will be illegal. simple as. and watch how fast non petrol driven cars and trucks start appearing.

Benny2guns

Watch out, lol, ok, but it won't happen, it's a fad to make a quick buck and keep us occupied thinking they are doing something to make a difference while they work on the real goal. Just saying, I could be right. Smile
(01-13-2010, 09:20 AM)Benny2guns Wrote: [ -> ]Watch out, lol, ok, but it won't happen, it's a fad to make a quick buck and keep us occupied thinking they are doing something to make a difference while they work on the real goal. Just saying, I could be right. Smile
of course you could be right benny but the odds that a non fossil fueled or non bio fueled car will be the most common car in 5 to ten years are pretty high. we all ready have electric cars and the hydrogen technology, their numbers grow at a rapid rate. every major city in the west has fleets of them already (electric cars). many have them in their public transport systems as buses etc. even in manila we have a small fleet of public service vehicles that are electric and cheap to buy . they're already here and they will expand. Smile

we've had them for decades. in the uk we've had electric driven milk floats and fork lift trucks for as long as i can remember. it's only now people are getting sick of choking when they go out. they're sick of being held to ransom by the oil industry. a couple more sessions from the oil industry like last year and it wouldn't surprise me if petrol cars were banned altogether.
i was in west tibet last year,crossing the road i almost got run over by a chinese hooker on a scooter,didn't hear her coming because the thing didn't make any sound,then i realised it was electric

Benny2guns

Electricity is not that much less expensive in Canada in comparison Guy's. The electric/gas powered cars are alot of money here also. 40 thousand and up. They are also very small and alot of people don't feel safe driving them....to be honest i would not. If the elect., car were to take off here so to speak then the price of hydro would need to drop by alot to off set the cost of the car. That will not happen, atleast not here. We need something new, something cheap and clean that needs next to no new infrastrusture to be feasable.
(01-14-2010, 09:19 AM)Benny2guns Wrote: [ -> ]Electricity is not that much less expensive in Canada in comparison Guy's. The electric/gas powered cars are alot of money here also. 40 thousand and up. They are also very small and alot of people don't feel safe driving them....to be honest i would not. If the elect., car were to take off here so to speak then the price of hydro would need to drop by alot to off set the cost of the car. That will not happen, atleast not here. We need something new, something cheap and clean that needs next to no new infrastrusture to be feasable.
Of course, nowhere was the optimism running more rampant than along Cobo Hall’s Electric Avenue, a 37,000-square-foot homage to the electron. Far from an industry resistant to change, automakers have completely embraced the electric car despite lingering doubts about their acceptance and the complete lack of an infrastructure to feed them. For instance, Jim Lentz, president and chief operating officer of Toyota Motor Sales, announced that the world’s No. 1 automaker will launch an all-electric vehicle in 2012 and a hydrogen fuel cell vehicle by 2015, noting that both products will require an all-new refuelling infrastructure to be made viable. Exactly where the money for these new multi-billion-dollar boondoggles will come from was conveniently (a kinder soul might say optimistically) not discussed.

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yes they may be more expensive but they will come down in price as volume grows. we saw that with everything from the tv to the pc etc.

as for running cost. once they sort it out you could possibly boost charge the car in a few minutes for a few dollars. no big gas tan busting prices. at the moment gas station make a few cents per gallon profit then you have to pay the tax. it's been proven an electric car can be charged quickly at little cost per price of electricity. add the same few cents the gas stations get on top or that and a bit of tax and in a year you'll save enough to almost by a car. you'll save even more if you charge it at home. it wouldn't surprise me that once electric cars are up and running they;ll come with their own charging kit etc. imaginge filling up with electricity for 5 dollars.
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