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i've been reading on the new revelations from wikileaks,specially the stuff on afghanistan,i knew it was much worse than the official releases would like us think,but such a mess is almost beyond belief,

mrmod

And the leaked orders from the US to spy on members of the NATO security council Confused. They were pretty ground shocking.
i don't see why. every government in the world will be giving the same orders. and doing the same thing.

i really don't see why anyone is shocked lmao. especially in the political climate we're in at the moment. now it isn't just about spying as it was in the 50's to 80' , now they also have to keep their eye on financial shit as well. i think they and all govs would be lax if they didn't use every opportunity they could to gather information.

so someone said bomb the iranians or else, of course they did. they're a threat.
i always thought the u.s. was the biggest threat to world stability ,i agree with you Bill,everybody would and is doing the same thing given the chance,it's not the spying on eachother or the assesments on world leaders[they're prob.pretty much true anyway]that worries me,but the total dis information we're being fed by our own governments about afghanistan e.a.

mrmod

Yes. But this we're not meant to know that. This blatant unveiling of the activities ordered should at least raise your brow. In America's position, it looks bad to spy on your allies. I'm sure they do to a certain extent as well, but it denigrates the reputation of NATO if all your countries are spying on each other.

And about Iran, the important factor which you missed out was that that "someone" happened to be what Iran considers "friends/allies". It would mean a back-stabbing from the Muslim countries in the middle-east and it generates some complications.
if they fed us the whole truth every country in the world would be in a state of war.
detante is about trust between countries, if something is said then it's a given that it doesn't get made public without permission. without it, we'd probably be in a state of constant war again. telling us all the whole truth sounds good but would probably cause more trouble when and where it wasn't needed. for instance, pakistan and the yemen can't openly tell it's people they gave permission for usa drones to bomb their lands. they'd be uproar. the usa can't tell it's people what it discusses with terrorist orgs or friends in battle. it would defeat the object of first strike, secrecy and counter intelligence.

do we want to know everything. personally i don't i want to know the out come. of course some things should have clarity. things like general funding, what they spend and where, who killed who. and other stuff, but not everything.
the only problem the rest of the arab world has with iran is that they''re shi'ites and the rest is sunny,that's on what a dumb level this all plays
(11-30-2010, 09:05 AM)SidewaysDan Wrote: [ -> ]Yes. But this we're not meant to know that. This blatant unveiling of the activities ordered should at least raise your brow. In America's position, it looks bad to spy on your allies. I'm sure they do to a certain extent as well, but it denigrates the reputation of NATO if all your countries are spying on each other.

And about Iran, the important factor which you missed out was that that "someone" happened to be what Iran considers "friends/allies". It would mean a back-stabbing from the Muslim countries in the middle-east and it generates some complications.
nato is and has been proven to be ineffective. that aside, it's always better to vote from a position of strength so knowing or having an idea who'll vote for what is a bonus.

as for iran. they were in conflict with saudi on more than one occasion and if you look at the middle east, no one trusts anyone. the mullahs of iran will also be contemplating nuclear power to attack isreal, saudi, possibly iraq and the west. this is a given. each gov will already know much of what has been said behind the locked doors of foreign embassies already. it's why they have intelligence. the cia, mi6, mossad, iranian, russian and chinese intelligence will already have known about this shit before it ever hit the wickleaks.

if they don't then they need to get out of the secret intelligence business hehe.
you're right there Bill,the thing is the public is being kept dum and being lied at,the prob.is that a few people have access to all info and the rest is kept in the dark and is manipulated
(11-30-2010, 09:21 AM)srijantje Wrote: [ -> ]you're right there Bill,the thing is the public is being kept dum and being lied at,the prob.is that a few people have access to all info and the rest is kept in the dark and is manipulated
i seriously belive most people (general public) aren't really that interested in any truth, what they want to know is stuff like; will i have a job tomorrow, will i have a home tomorrow. we don't give two shits about n korea or israel etc. we don't care who knows what or even what's being hidden from us.
there's always been whistle blowers, always will be. i doubt they'll always be a wikileaks.

isn't it true we expect our govs to do all our dirty work, we don't want to get our own hands dirty but we'll cry holy shit if our gov get's their hands dirty on our behalf. (admittedly it's not always on our behalf but often it is)
well,yes,as in we're doing allright because our government [read business people]are ripping off the natives,see prince Andrew.
(11-30-2010, 04:01 PM)srijantje Wrote: [ -> ]well,yes,as in we're doing allright because our government [read business people]are ripping off the natives,see prince Andrew.
that maybe true lol but do you think knowing your being ripped off will stop it happening?

let's say now you and millions know you're being ripped off. what are you all going to do about it?

and how come you don;t already know you're being ripped off? isn't that what big business corporations are famous for? i read a few of the leaks and i've yet to see one thing that surprises me or that will surprise a foreign gov.

ass for julie assange. i wouldn't trust what that guy said if it came out of the dead mother theres's mouth. he's Jekyll.

anyone can make a quote or answer a question. i just hope someone wikis his emails soon Wink
no,no surprises there,some funny things though,the colonel with his ukrainian nurse for example
it seems that assange is now on interpols most wanted list.
and it looks like the usa may charge him, wikileaks or both with espionage.
they def want him. if i were him i'd be really jittery right now.

my question is this, what did he expect. he's saying he did it for peace and yet he's prob going to start a war.
yep i reckon right now his arse is vibrating like a set of vocal chords hehe.
yes,nobody as vindictive as the u.s.government
looks like your hero will be doing time i the pen
he'll probably enjoy it Big Grin
no,we don't want that kind of publicity
there you go,governments around the world made a deal to get this guy,next,wikileaks gets closed down
assange may soon be serving ass to his cell mates.
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