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is there an end in sight. and when the end comes will the
west have achieved anything? personally i think the west will go the way of russia, when they attempted to control and change the area. it's doomed to failure. in the short term they may win some hearts and minds, scare the taliban away and to some extent wipe many of them out. that however won't change a thing. in a really short period of time it will be back to square one.

as of now i'd say the west is wasting time money and lives. there has to come a time when those that be say..fuck it we've had enough.
i wonder why they're there in the first place.
it's tribal warfare over there,let them sort it out themselves i say.
every time you kill one,the rest of the surviving family members vow eternal revenge and make no mistake,they mean it.
so either you leave them to it or you have to kill them all.

Benny2guns

I think someone is makeing too much money over there so it won't end soon i don't think. There is no longer any other point to war.
i think war can have or make a point, though i think the afghan war is beyond any relevant point making. in the beginning it made a statement of sorts. it also gave the afghan gov a chance to redefine itself. i don't think the afghan gov did enough.
now i think the west should pull out. i certainly don't condemn the west for going there. i said yes to it happening but i think we have to reassess now and again, the reason for being there, what we'll gain by staying, what will Afghanistan gain by us staying there and the difference it makes there and on the home front. Could that cash spent there be better used in the homelands of teh respective countries. could it be used more wisely.
(01-06-2010, 01:56 AM)Benny2guns Wrote: [ -> ]I think someone is makeing too much money over there so it won't end soon i don't think. There is no longer any other point to war.
making money on what?
yes the afghan"government"on corruption.
the aid mafia ofcourse.
and simply the justification that we still have nato,instead of having abandoned it after the reason it was started,the warsaw pact,collapsed.
yeah but didn't the un take over nato's role if not by name by deed (or lack of deed). the same with seato.

nVeve

it's simple we are there, they try to blow us up there. if we are here, they try to blow us up here. it's not a hard choice to say we have to be there. if not few years done the line they would blow something up here and the liberals will be demanding blood like they did after 9/11. me i think the pope should start a military go in there and whoop some as medieval Knight style.

Benny2guns

(01-06-2010, 11:19 AM)srijantje Wrote: [ -> ]
(01-06-2010, 01:56 AM)Benny2guns Wrote: [ -> ]I think someone is makeing too much money over there so it won't end soon i don't think. There is no longer any other point to war.
making money on what?
yes the afghan"government"on corruption.
the aid mafia ofcourse.
and simply the justification that we still have nato,instead of having abandoned it after the reason it was started,the warsaw pact,collapsed.

Munitions and petroleum products of course, come on people.:rolleyes:
@nVeve

how many terrorists plots have been carried out while the west has been there?
how many plot have been foiled in the country where they were going to happen.
urban or guerrilla terror tactics will not and cannot be controlled with an armed force of occupation. specially in a place like afghanistan or the late vietnam.
you cannot demoralize a terrorist by blowing up a rock or tree. when we do cut a head off the hydra another two grow.

i say leave a nominal force there and use the some of the money saved more wisely on black ops. play them at their own game and terrorize them. the rules of war as pertaining to the west at present do not allow for success. small elite hit squads would be way cheaper and more effective. we could even get their own men to do the dirty deed for a few dollars. (compared to the cost of keeping a fighting fit army out there.)

@ srijante

if the west can install a gov of their choice then they'll get the cream of regeneration projects. that said i doubt if the cost of what has been spent fighting the war there will ever be recouped. we do need to find something for the afghans to do other than crop opium. it's one of the main reasons the Taliban have power. they employ people. they have an urban army that knows how to kill without using tens of thousands of soldiers. and they don't care who they kill. killing a civilian is all good if it helps get the crops picked
in other words,the taxpayer finances the war,private companies,the ones who are usually owned by politicians like haliburton,can come in and do the repairworks,what a great business model
the opium problem is easily solved by just buying the whole crop outright,much cheaper than trying to eradicate it,but i guess cheaper is not really an issue
so they just keep growing the crops and we keep buying them lol.

why not pay them to grow food? why not buy the grops of food or whatever off them..

nVeve

it all matters. never for not
(01-08-2010, 04:26 PM)billy Wrote: [ -> ]so they just keep growing the crops and we keep buying them lol.
yes,why not?
i'm sure we could find something usefull to do with the stuff.for one it won't flood the black market.
we could if we were all dope fiends hehe.

as long as they use the poppy for subsistence the taliban will always be in control of the country...despite who rule or what armed forces are on the ground.
everybody who can grow it uses poppy for subsistence.
one has to define who and what is the taliban,as far as i can see it ,its tribal warfare over there and who is fighting the afghan"government" and the coalition is dubbed taliban.
they all grow it and get paid a pittance.
the people who make the money are the taliban.
the ones who say "cultivate our crops or die"
most of the workers are taliban because not to be
would mean death and possibly their whole family being wiped out.

what i'm saying is give them an incentive to grow other crops.

mrmod

Check this out:

http://news.yahoo.com/video/world-157496...n-17954088

The biggest offensive is going to take part soon. Do you think it will work?
i don't agree with you on that one bill,people fight for money over there,they fight for the one that pays the most or the tribal leader fights fot one side so the whole tribe follows suit.
even before i read the article dan,i'll say no it won't work,it never does
(02-04-2010, 11:40 PM)srijantje Wrote: [ -> ]i don't agree with you on that one bill,people fight for money over there,they fight for the one that pays the most or the tribal leader fights fot one side so the whole tribe follows suit.
even before i read the article dan,i'll say no it won't work,it never does
and the tribal leaders will be paid by the taliban to say
"yep work in the fields" or "yep fight" specially if th tribal leader has been threatened with the death of his entire family or village.
yes it's all a matter of alliances and how powerfull you are.
what i'm trying to say is that the whole concept"taliban"is a misnomer,just a term to put everything under that is against you,very similar to"al Qaida"
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