Poetry Forum

Full Version: Free speech? pffft.
You're currently viewing a stripped down version of our content. View the full version with proper formatting.
Friend who is college prof (she teaches critical thinking in English writing) sent me this link.  She was livid...as was I when I read it.  Soon we'll be burning books again.

total bs
(05-29-2015, 10:53 PM)bena Wrote: [ -> ]Friend who is college prof (she teaches critical thinking in English writing) sent me this link.  She was livid...as was I when I read it.  Soon we'll be burning books again.

total bs

You and your friend used to burn books?
Hush you.
The question is: did you burn books for warmth? That's somewhat excusable like stealing food when you're hungry.

Maybe we need to rethink the idea of college credit courses in high school. Clearly, people aren't really ready for it.
Burning books for warmth or burning anything by Ginsburg would be acceptable.
A naked sculpture of Huckleberry Finn and Jim caused a hubbub recently.

https://news.artnet.com/in-brief/whitney...ted-298160
(05-30-2015, 12:19 AM)milo Wrote: [ -> ]Burning books for warmth or burning anything by Ginsburg would be acceptable.

This Ginsburg - Ruth Bader Ginsburg - she seems quite a sweet old lady??
How about that poem Howl, I quite like it but if it's about keeping warm then it has to be quite high up on the list.  Thumbsup
(05-30-2015, 04:14 AM)ambrosial revelation Wrote: [ -> ]
(05-30-2015, 12:19 AM)milo Wrote: [ -> ]Burning books for warmth or burning anything by Ginsburg would be acceptable.

This Ginsburg - Ruth Bader Ginsburg - she seems quite a sweet old lady??
How about that poem Howl, I quite like it but if it's about keeping warm then it has to be quite high up on the list.  Thumbsup

I thought "Howl" had a couple good lines packed with a ton of bloat and preachiness but that is probably just me.
I love Howl, and I generally hate long poetry because I'm lazy...so go figure.

As for the huck and jim sculpture...I thought Munich was pretty liberal. Haven't we gotten past that whole nudity in art is forbidden thing? This is obviously after they were skinny dipping.
I use the animated version of Howl available on youtube ALL THE TIME in class, because I'm constantly seeing the best minds of every fucking generation suffer the same problems and I don't care if it's R rated. The students play Grand Theft Auto, for fuck's sake.
That's an extremely valid point, Leanne, and thanks for mentioning the animated version. I may have been living under a rock, but I'd never seen it...and it's stunningly beautiful. The animations themselves are poetic art, even if the poem wasn't being spoken. I thought I saw a few references to van gogh's starry night in there, briefly. WOnderful stuff.
(05-29-2015, 11:53 PM)Todd Wrote: [ -> ]The question is: did you burn books for warmth? That's somewhat excusable like stealing food when you're hungry.

Maybe we need to rethink the idea of college credit courses in high school. Clearly, people aren't really ready for it.

False logic, todd. There are many things you can steal which burn but nothing other than food assuages hunger. Of course, the logic is easily defeated if, for example, you stole food to burn.I myself have written a well received treatise on " Digestive Biscuits as an Alternative Fuel" Harrrrumphhhh!
Best,
tectak

(05-30-2015, 12:19 AM)milo Wrote: [ -> ]Burning books for warmth or burning anything by Ginsburg would be acceptable.

I find myself agreeing with milo and it hurts when I touch it so I don't touch it.
tectak
I honestly don't know how this kind of thing still happens. But, in a way, isn't that half the fun of it? I mean, do we really want to live in a world where poetry is always tame and doesn't piss anyone off? Don't get me wrong, the goal posts should have changed, and poetry about homosexuality shouldn't be in that bracket; but still, a universal desensitization kind of spoils the punch. Swearing in poetry used to be a big deal, now it is a bit lame, and to be honest a lot of Howl does sound embarrassingly 'hip' and 'smoooooth jazzzz',yet I think it is a testament to the poem that it can still raise an eyebrow let alone a suspension.

also, just a post script, I do not mean to trivialize someone losing their job, that obviously really sucks - but, at least he went out like a rock star.
There is nothing wrong with teaching university-level stuff to high school kids as long as it's properly scaffolded. In my experience, they WANT to be challenged (just as long as they don't have to do too much extra work!). My students, at least, generally love the idea that poetry can be banned and I try to get them to write as edgy as possible -- at first they think that means just saying "fuck" a lot, until I prove to them how much of a cliche that is by showing them some really bad spoken word. Eventually most of them come around to the idea that they can dig a bit deeper and get to what's really bothering them. No masterpieces yet, but a lot of kids who leave with a stronger sense of self-expression and empathy.

But then, Australia doesn't have free speech laws -- but we do have freedom for open and honest political communication. In other words, we aren't supposed to attack individuals with inflammatory and discriminatory language but the government is absolutely fair game. Poetry is political, after all.
teachers should teach with caution. i'm guessing/hoping many do, if the kids are capable of understanding what's being said in a non giggly way. then i call it good education. that it's about homosexuality is no foul. most kids know about it, many are part of the scene. that a teacher loses their job for broadening minds is pretty bad. i do think there are some standards that should be adhered to, things that break the law, some of the gratuitous shit that surfaces on the net now and again dressed as good poetry.. i tend to swear a lot when i write. [though not in sex poems Big Grin ]
for me fuck is an every day word that should be used the same as any other. it really has little wow factor any more unless you mix it up in unusual ways. i say give him his job back
I think we should all get together and start a school for kids what want to think good about stuff.

We should build it in the Philippines, because it will cost less and billy could be the lunch lady.
eww...what about his hygiene, i mean, we'll have to eat something too!  My son has a tee that says "The Derek Zoolander School for Kids Who Can't Read Good and Want to Do Other Stuff Good Too"---drives my mom crazy.  This idea reminds me of something like that.
(05-31-2015, 10:08 PM)bena Wrote: [ -> ]eww...what about his hygiene, i mean, we'll have to eat something too!  My son has a tee that says "The Derek Zoolander School for Kids Who Can't Read Good and Want to Do Other Stuff Good Too"---drives my mom crazy.  This idea reminds me of something like that.

"what is this? A center for ants? I don't want to hear your excuses. The center has to be at least... 3 times bigger than this!"
enter unto me little... nope i can't go there with this one.

they've all read dirty books and seen porn on the net. reading the words cock, arse, fuck, and cunt won't debauch. them any more than the school playground. i taught my kids how to say fuck off to the rent man when they were three....i kid you not lyndzy would say :thuck op penma" and place to chubby fingers in the air that acted as reinforcement