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my kids had every vaccine they gave out.

i looked on it this way. once we had polio, cholera and a host of other diseases which are still rife in the third world, even more so back then.

remember the spanish flu outbreak that killed approx 20 mill people. well i believe that while all those influenza shots won't stop another such outbreak it will help. certain antibodies will be passed from mum to child and so on. the shots my kids had on one occasion caused my eldest a bit of distress, nut if you asked me would i make her have them again i'd say yes.
i believe the vaccines do much more good than bad. without them i also believe we would be at the level of some 3rd world countries where communicable disease is concerned.

if you lived in the congo would you have a cholera shot, if so why?
In this case, benefits outweigh risks. I know what you mean about the health ministry/ authorities downplaying the negatives... it's the same with practically everything. Just the products in the market such as food: how they were made, what's in them... most folks would be pretty shocked to know the whole truth behind things we blindly take for granted. But as billy pointed out, if you simplify the discussion: could those vaccines save your child's life? The answer is yes.
(10-05-2010, 03:54 PM)addy Wrote: [ -> ]In this case, benefits outweigh risks.

Sums up my view.

and mine really

the other side of the coin is what if something happens and you didn't have the child vaccinated?


In generally yeah. It's good to be aware of both sides of the scale but in this case I think that giving a vaccine could save a lot of trouble (if not a life) in future days.

Also slightly on the subject, don't be over protective. Kids need to go out and get dirty and get ill. I'm not saying to let him wander into a sceptic tank but just to let his immune system to learn from experience (in general , works better than vaccine. In fact, that's how vaccines work Blush).
imagine a world without vaccines? your childs mortality chances would probably be less than half of what it is now. maybe even worse. (an assumption)
if that's the case, maybe it would be better if you just breathe on him/her a lot and pass some antibodies down.
At my most cynical and conspiracy minded I still can't believe that drug companies are trying to kill your kids. They (and governments) want your children to live for as long as possible so that they can sell them drugs (and tax them) for as long as possible. To that end, they spend hundreds of millions of dollars and employ tens of thousands of intelligent and educated professionals to produce drugs that are safe. [Or, at least, safer than they are dangerous.]

It is flying in face of common sense to believe that reading a few scare stories can make you better qualified to decide which drugs are safe and which are not than the majority of health care professionals.
i think we can pick any medication or foodstuff and find enough wrong with it that we wouldn't want to take medicine or ever eat again. why have doctors unless they use alternative medicine.
and even then, many used are from poisonous plants. if i get a cold or the flue i'll take an antibiotic. and eat oranges. if the doc says i need such and such i'll probably take it.

bad stories. yes there's a lot of them, but there's also six billion of us on the planet. how many died from a flu vaccine. how many would die without it (specially the aged)
(10-09-2010, 08:24 AM)mr.moobs Wrote: [ -> ]If I get bit by a dog I dont hestitate to get myself an antitetanus shot as soon as possible.

It's more than a little disturbing that while you're perfectly happy to endanger your child by denying him vaccinations you're not willing to put your own life on the line by denying yourself the benefits.
(10-10-2010, 02:28 AM)mr.moobs Wrote: [ -> ]Now that was taken completely out of context. The next sentence said I would do the same to my son.

Sure. But it drives home the key point--vaccines aren't 100% risk free but taking them is less risky than not taking them. And that quote proves that you understand and accept that.

The rest of your "argument" is merely intellectual posturing.
Quote:But we dont take food intravenously, do we? Nor do we feed 3 months old babies anythink but (mothers)milk.

if you look at breast feeding you'll see it's often powered baby milk that gets fed to the child. (orally)
are you saying if we take toxins orally it's okay?

some vaccines are given orally, are they any safer okay?

what happens when a child needs blood. (they use additives in that and even manufacture blood plasma.

of course at the end of the day we all have the ability to make our own choice. personally i'd get them vaccinated.


(10-10-2010, 02:28 AM)mr.moobs Wrote: [ -> ]All statistics show that people do die from vaccines.

Now compare statistics of people who died that have been vaccinated and people who died that were not vaccinated.
You are very likely to find that in general more people die from not having vaccines, than having them.

And I understand the worry you have for your son and what's in vaccines. But the sad fact is that either way you're putting him in danger. There's no such thing as a fool proof method, you just need to weigh out the dangers and take the safest way.

And I believe I speak for most everyone in this thread when I say that vaccines are generally the safer alternative.Blush
without trying to change moob's mind, i agree with dan and Ts, for me also it's the safest bet.

your son's lucky to have two parents who care enough about his health to think about the problem in such a way.
i take 7 tablets a day. all have contras.
i doubt there's a drug that doesn't have contras.
and some people have the side effects.

i still go with "the benefit outweighs the risk route.

Statistics can be used to "prove" anything.

But what we know to be true is that the majority of health care professionals currently believe that the benefits of vaccines outweigh the risks. If they didn't then, like leeches as a cure for the plague, they would no longer be the default recommendation.

Does that mean that it is a fact that the positives outweigh the negatives? Not at all--leeches were once believed to be a cure all but are now known not to be. But it does mean that your opinion, and the opinion of a minority of health care professionals, is less likely to be correct.

In short. On the basis of currently available knowledge, you are doing your child a disservice if you don't vaccinate.

And with that umpteenth restating of the situation, I'm done. It's your kid--his health is yours to gamble with one way or the other.



I have not had any in the last 4 years and have not been sick if at all. You do not know what you are getting and the governments are ran with business in mind ;].

I have not had any in the last 4 years and have not been sick if at all. You do not know what you are getting and the governments are ran with business in mind ;].
i would presume lots of people who have been vaccinated haven't been ill in the last 4 years either?

can we take it you were ill before 4years ago?


(10-11-2010, 11:59 PM)mr.moobs Wrote: [ -> ]So you say, but most of them arent lethal. GREAT! I wont worry bout my son having motorical dysfunctions / being blind / deaf / limp whatever then. As long as he's alive everything is just honky dory right?

Everything is never honky dory. If you think that a method of curing diseases in the world without any downside is possible, then you are a fool. No one can tell if your kid is going to have something wrong with him and it might be hard to prove it was vaccination that caused. Hell, you can't even say if he's going to get run over by a double decker tomorrow, and then that's that : GAME OVER.

Point is it's impossible to know what's going to happen, but by taking a small step with its downsides you can give your son a decent chance of not getting this or that infection for the probability of something else going wrong.

You said of the cases of people dying and various symptoms related to vaccines. Ask yourself this: Do you know many people who have died/suffered greatly due to vaccines? Chances will be, you know maybe a couple but the other large chunk of people in your life will have survived a vaccine, who knows maybe they survived because of a vaccine.

I've told you before, it's great that you worry about vaccines and are ready to question the system, but for the good of your son it's time to drop your preconceptions and let him have them (if he needs them.)
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