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most of the world is against what they did.

were they fair in saying, drop the goods off at such and such a port and it's okay.

if you try and break our blockade we'll board and turn you back.

personally i think there was an agenda behind the aid confrontation.
if this is the case then they deserve all they got.

if not then i think they're rather stupid to think the Israelis stand by and let them break the blockade.

i can't see them as being stupid so it just reinforces my thoughts that there was indeed an agenda, outside humanitarian help.

did they seriously expect the Israelis to let them through after telling them they'd be stopped.

personally i think the Israelis should allow aid through to Gaza but i'm not on about that. i'm on about people who use the cover of aid to propagate their own agenda.

to me they're just as bad.

mrmod

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/blog/201...llout-live

^Source^

Matthew Weaver Wrote:The Turkish prime minister, Recep Tayyip Erdogan, has delivered a furious speech to the Turkish parliament in Ankara.

"This attack should definitely be punished," he said to loud applause. "No one should test Turkey's patience... The foundation of peace in the Middle East is being rocked by the reckless attitude of Israel," he said.

"This bloody massacre by Israel on ships that were taking humanitarian aid to Gaza deserves every kind of curse," he added.

He also revealed that Turkey had sent two ambulance flights to Israel to pick up Turks wounded in the raid, and that another flight is on the way. He called for the immediate release of the injured and those who continued to be detained.

The speech was given a standing ovation.

I think Israel needs to be more careful when they handle Muslim affairs. Many Turks were arrested and all passengers were mistreated (not allowed to go to toilets, filmed etc.). There was a reporter that was shot in the face with a tear gas capsule and her eye will now have to be removed. I also believe that people died during these raids.

Did Israel have the right to act about the blockade? Yes.

Did they have the right to hurt people in it? No.

This attack failed on the basis that it has now made people even more angry. Dodgy
i heard two more vessels are going to try and break the blockade with aid. again it's not aid but a political stunt. anyone can send aid through a different route. the two countries are at war so of course one has a blockade against the other, it would be stupid not to.

mrmod

(06-01-2010, 08:40 PM)billy Wrote: [ -> ]i heard two more vessels are going to try and break the blockade with aid. again it's not aid but a political stunt. anyone can send aid through a different route. the two countries are at war so of course one has a blockade against the other, it would be stupid not to.

But Israel should've handled it much better. No doubt about that.
i agree but maybe they were sending a message to the world.

fuck with us and we'll do what it takes to kick your ass.

mrmod

But it's just bad Public Relations skills. You want to prevent ships from reaching a blockaded area not anger the whole Islamic world.

In my opinion, they should've boarded the ships, turned the engines off and then tow them to the nearest Israeli safe harbour. Not invade, attack and deport Confused.

Edit:


[Image: bron1927l.jpg]

After all they're all doing the same Confused.
(06-02-2010, 12:19 AM)gcjm Wrote: [ -> ]Can they really?

Without dragging this off-topic:

The Gaza blockade has closed off virtually ALL possibilities of aid reaching the Palestinians in the region.
Sources are needed to corroborate that statement I feel.. and not the Israeli Prime Minister saying it's true.

On Topic:
I agree there was obviously an alternate agenda with the flotilla and the Free Gaza movement's prescence in the waters.

Nameably to draw attention to the cause by any means necessary.

They certainly achieved it.
Palestinians are the most heavily subsidised people, in per capita terms, on the planet.

source; the telegraph

although its an israeli source i doubt they would lie as to what the WHo, UNICEF, and many more agencies sent in, if they did they would be villified for lying.

it's actually a good read.;

Israel’s Humanitarian Aid in Gaza ;
source;


#

Humanitarian Aid Transferred from Israel to Gaza in 2009:
# 738,576 tons of humanitarian aid was transferred from Israel into Gaza through the Israel-Gaza goods crossings
# More than 26 million gallons (100 million liters) of heavy duty diesel for the Gaza power station was transferred from Israel to Gaza
# 10,544 patients from Gaza, along with their escorts, passed into Israel for medical attention
# 4,883 tons of medical equipment and medicines entered Gaza
# 44,500 H1N1 vaccines sent from Israel to Gaza95 truckloads of equipment for water and sewage systems were transferred into Gaza from Israel

source;

U.S. to Give $900 Million in Gaza Aid, Officials Say
sorry i can't link to the page which is in the washington post;

WASHINGTON — The Obama administration intends to provide some $900 million to help rebuild Gaza after the Israeli incursion that ended last month, administration officials said Monday.

In an early sign of how the administration plans to deal with Hamas, the militant Islamist group that controls Gaza, an official said that the aid would not go to Hamas but that it would be funneled through nongovernmental organizations.

By seeking to aid Gazans but not Hamas, the administration is following the lead of the Bush administration, which sent money to Gaza through nongovernmental organizations. In December, it said it would give $85 million to the United Nations agency that provides aid to Palestinian refugees in the West Bank, Gaza, Jordan, Lebanon and Syria.
(06-01-2010, 08:40 PM)billy Wrote: [ -> ]i heard two more vessels are going to try and break the blockade with aid. again it's not aid but a political stunt. anyone can send aid through a different route. the two countries are at war so of course one has a blockade against the other, it would be stupid not to.

which 2 countries are at war?
wasn't the raid in international waters which makes it an act of piracy?
(06-03-2010, 09:33 AM)srijantje Wrote: [ -> ]
(06-01-2010, 08:40 PM)billy Wrote: [ -> ]i heard two more vessels are going to try and break the blockade with aid. again it's not aid but a political stunt. anyone can send aid through a different route. the two countries are at war so of course one has a blockade against the other, it would be stupid not to.
which 2 countries are at war?
wasn't the raid in international waters which makes it an act of piracy?
in theory but not in fact.

many countries use blockade tactics to stop trade or to enforce an arms embargo. n korean ships have been stopped by the americans and boarded in international waters.

a russian war ship boarded a ship in international waters off somalia to regain it from pirates Sad

by all those concerned or merely viewing from the outside. israel and palestine are at war. as such the side who has the most power, in this case israel would be stupid not to create a an inspection blockaid.

going to war and protecting your borders even on foreign soil is not an actual crime. we only have to look at afghanistan and iraq to see this is so.
yes,i understand the law of the strongest in our monkey society and i'm sure there were ulterior motives involved by those who send the aid convoy but there is a big difference between inspecting some ships or storming them with para troopers,it's the same reaction as getting a firecracker fired at you and then reacting with flattening and covering the whole of south lebanon with anti personnel ordnance
don't get me wrong,. i'm not saying it's right. (or am i)

i'm saying its what people at war do.

i can pretty much guarantee they wouldn't have stopped had they been asked to, which i think happened on numerous occasions.

we surmise that they were aid ships because they said they were. the Israelis would never take that risk. if they did they would be not only stupid but incompetent.

mrmod

(06-03-2010, 06:03 PM)billy Wrote: [ -> ]if they did they would be not only stupid but incompetent.

It was a sticky situation for the Israelis but it no one else's fault that they made such a mess of it. People were seriously injured (and died I believe).

In the end, Israel will have to learn that there are perhaps better tactics than just jumping into the middle of it and making a cock-a-hoop of themselves only to make mince-meat of a situation.
the fact is they don't give a shit what anybody thinks,it'll be out of the news in a couple of days anyway and they like to kill flies with a hammer

halfbaked

First of all i would like to say that in the trans-boundary waters apply also some laws. The international waters are 200 sea miles away from the land and the flotilla were attacked in the international waters.
Read:
Quote:Ships sailing the high seas are generally under the jurisdiction of the flag state; however, when a ship is involved in certain criminal acts, such as piracy, any nation can exercise jurisdiction under the doctrine of hostis humani generis.
That's the first crime they commit. They attacked a ship that was sailing under the turkisch flag, not a pirate, a country in peace with Israel. That's an act of war. The people of that ships have the right to refuse the soldiers on their ships.
Israel is on the whole line wrong in this case.

The second crime they committed was that they bordered ship with weapons, in this case they were the pirates, licenced by their government, but still pirates. Israel didnt decleared that ships to pirateships, so they attacked a harmless civilianship of an ally.

halfbaked

(06-04-2010, 01:10 AM)velvetfog Wrote: [ -> ]Israel will intercept any ship headed towards Gaza, to make sure that Hamas does not receive any weapon shipments that way.
It is in their national security interest to do this, and they will continue doing so for the foreseeable future.

The Americans took the same approach back in 1962, during the Cuban Missile Crisis.
Back then, the Soviet ships turned around, to avoid inspection.
There was no war between the Americans and the Russians at the time (other than what was referred to as "The Cold War").

That doesn't mean that they are right. I don't like the palestinians behavior neither, but the Israelians are the bad guy's in this whole crisis between then. The good thing about the past months is that i met many different nationality's. I met a few palestinians and a few Israelian people. They say all the same. Israel is a bully who wants their right in every possible situation.

14 May 1948 ->independance Israel
15 November 1988 -> independance Palistine

Read this article please: http://www.masada2000.org/historical.html

halfbaked

(06-04-2010, 03:35 AM)velvetfog Wrote: [ -> ]
(06-04-2010, 02:55 AM)halfbaked Wrote: [ -> ]Read this article please: http://www.masada2000.org/historical.html

Interesting link.
It has a comprehensive review of past conflicts in the region, with maps.

glad you like it.